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What should the West do about Ukraine?

Starter: NightCruiser Posted: 10 years ago Views: 16.7K
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#4834808
Lvl 42
Quote:
Originally posted by NightCruiser
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A large part of Ukraine wants to do trade with the west. A large part of Ukraine signed an protection agreement with the west. The Soviet Union broke up because large segments of that Unions wanted to choose another path. Putin is trying to get it back together by force and coercion. Things change but Putin has not changed. He still thinks he is living in Soviet KGB times. This single minded love for the past is already costing Russia a fortune economically and it is going to get much worse economically. We have a world economy now. The Russian people will start suffering soon as their monetary value continues to drop. Trade drops. Bank money frozen ETC. We don't have to fire a shot to make Russia suffer. We will sell lots of natural gas and oil to Europe. I haven't seen any evidence their was a real threat to the Russian speaking people in the Ukraine.
Ya know people talk about the US military having a hard time fighting in 3rd world country but we a talking about a Military with close to a Trillion dollar base annual budget. A military that tip toes in 3rd world countries so as to not hurt civilians and destroy property.. What we are capable of is a scorched earth rampage if we so choose. The USA military uses a lot of restraint in wars. You know how we ended the North/ South Korean war? I was watching a documentary on it one night and saw where a General said we just started slaughtering Chinese soldiers by the 10s of 1000s. The Chinese were then ready to negotiate. That was way back on the old days. Much of our Military might is top secret at that. People point out the hard time the Germans had to with Russians in WW2. That was primitive fighting compares to what we have today. So the Russians would have to resort to Nukes and that was be the end of the world as we know it. Makes you wonder why Putin would risk all to confront the west when Obama has been trying to build a close friendship with Russia


Well yes Putin is a nutcase but how nuts? Will anybody call his bluff? i think not!!! I'd be like playing Russian roulette (forgive the pun) with the world.
#4834809
Lvl 42
Quote:
Originally posted by Althalus
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So like all police pretty much then. Also the point of of the UN is to solve issues like this. So they better get their ass in gear and do something.


Yeah the U.N's motto is 'Procrastinate' and it's standard is a toothless sheep.
#4834831
Lvl 4
Quote:
Originally posted by Lia
Quote:

Originally posted by Lia

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If we lived in a perfect world that might work, but our world is very imperfect look at our President.......

Lia




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Unless people have not noticed Obama has turned our country into the laughing stock of the whole world, He constantly turns his back on our allies and tries to placate our enemies......


I wouldn't say that. I think Obama is trying to be fair to other countries. He is not blindly supporting Israel or anyone else. He has not got us into any more wars to nowhere. Bush was President when Russia attacked Georgia. Obama has pretty much decimated Al-queda including the killing of Bin ladin. Nothing much we could do in Egypt, Syria and Libya civil wars.
#4834833
Lvl 4
Quote:
Originally posted by Caligynephobe
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Well yes Putin is a nutcase but how nuts? Will anybody call his bluff? i think not!!! I'd be like playing Russian roulette (forgive the pun) with the world.


The problem is a good many of our Congress people are nuts too ie see government shut down, Iraq etc etc etc. A good many of them believe the Book of Revelations in the Bible and want to make it happen.
I don't think we should count on Germany's help:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-04/merkel-ties-to-russia-gain-putin-s-ear-while-limiting-options.html
#4834835
Lvl 16
we have enough problems here at home time for mr obama to stay out of it militarily maybe impose sanctions but other countries need to be behind us and back us up once
#4834886
Lvl 4
Quote:
Originally posted by manoft
we have enough problems here at home time for mr obama to stay out of it militarily maybe impose sanctions but other countries need to be behind us and back us up once


I agree. Europe should be taking a lead role in this solution but the German Chancellor is from East Germany, according to the link I posted. Her role models are from Russia. There are 6000 German companies in Russia. They are dependent on Russia's Natural Gas(as are other European countries). No wonder Putin thinks he can do what he wants. Kerry shooting off his mouth with no backing from a major player like Germany. I think this will fade away and Russia will install another puppet
#4834900
Lvl 5
Threats foreign and domestic. Russia is not a threat to us.... They can work out their own shit. I'm way fucking done seeing my tax money spent on an overly bloated military budget. If I were Obama is slash the M budget and drop that dough right into science and technology research... Then just sit back and watch the money pile in
#4834906
Lvl 8
Remember a few months back when there was a huge discussion about the US stepping in to intervene in Syria? Thankfully, the US decided against that. What is happening there has nothing whatsoever to do with the US. Russia is not the world power that the old USSR was. They don't have the money, or the resources to pull some kind of large scale take-over. The cold war USSR threat is waaayyy different than the current Russian power grab going on right now. Russian occupation of the Ukraine is already hurting their economy. If Putin wants to set his country back even further just for the ego boost of occupying a former USSR territory, that's his own fault.I will predict that in 6 months, nobody will care about this at all.
[Deleted] finds this awesome.
#4834992
Lvl 42
Quote:
Originally posted by Lia
Quote:

Originally posted by Lia

...

If we lived in a perfect world that might work, but our world is very imperfect look at our President.......

Lia




...

Unless people have not noticed Obama has turned our country into the laughing stock of the whole world, He constantly turns his back on our allies and tries to placate our enemies......



I think that might be an American opinion of how the world views Obama; you shouldn't listen to Fox.
The UK loves Obama, Now Bush now he was a joke, you could even buy books about how stupid he was. he was a constant source of ridicule on TV programs

Nobody could get there head round how anybody so inarticulate and retarded could be voted into such a position of power and we laughed American's for voting for him.

Obama is revered here; a intelligent world statesman who trying to do good things in America with Obamacare (We've had a similar thing for over 60 years)

Nobody in the UK thinks he's deserted us as an ally, not even a suggestion, that's complete bollocks!!!

World politics gets complicated when there is money involved. Here in the UK, Russians, Chinese and Malaysians have invested heavily. When these countries governments do bad things, is hard to take action when it could have terrible financial implications.
#4834995
Lvl 42
Quote:
Originally posted by Davey45
Remember a few months back when there was a huge discussion about the US stepping in to intervene in Syria? Thankfully, the US decided against that. What is happening there has nothing whatsoever to do with the US. Russia is not the world power that the old USSR was. They don't have the money, or the resources to pull some kind of large scale take-over. The cold war USSR threat is waaayyy different than the current Russian power grab going on right now. Russian occupation of the Ukraine is already hurting their economy. If Putin wants to set his country back even further just for the ego boost of occupying a former USSR territory, that's his own fault.I will predict that in 6 months, nobody will care about this at all.


Who has been supplying the Syrian rebels with weapons? Might it be the CIA? Oh so it is!! If that's not 'intervening' i don't know what is.

And with Russian oil and gas dictating the European markets i think you'll find they've been doing quite alright of late thank you very much.
#4835070
Lvl 4
I was reading an editorial yesterday and they were talking about Russia's system of Government. Like any authoritarian rule, the leaders line their pockets with kick backs. Putin is rich off the Russian system. So was the former leader of the Ukraine. So much corruption in governments around the world that have no checks and balances. One good thing about the USA political party system is the other side is always digging for dirt on the opponents. You can't get away with corruption for very long before somebody finds out and investigates you. The FBI is always looking for corruption. The problem with our system now is political candidates need Millions of dollars to run for office. Buying influence by campaign contributions is our down fall. Lobby groups are our down fall. Special interest with cash runs the government. If things don't make sense then follow the money trail. This is legalized bribery in my opinion
[Deleted] finds this awesome.
#4835075
Lvl 9
Impose sanctions? Ha! What a joke. We need to take over the world and make everyone our bitch just like I do to fuckers on here. Quit being pussys. The world respects muscle and force not policies. They hate us even when we try to play nice. Until God quits making Humans the way he does than I don't know what to tell you.
#4835103
Lvl 59
Quote:
Originally posted by seipo44
Impose sanctions? Ha! What a joke. We need to take over the world and make everyone our bitch just like I do to fuckers on here. Quit being pussys. The world respects muscle and force not policies. They hate us even when we try to play nice. Until God quits making Humans the way he does than I don't know what to tell you.


I want to ban you just out of principle.

I won't, because I rule this forum like a benevolent philosopher-king, but it would amuse me.
[Deleted], DEMO, [Deleted], Caligynephobe and 1 other(s) find this awesome.
#4835464
Lvl 4
This is getting crazy! Congress is putting so much pressure on Obama to do something that Obama is saying stupid stuff like "We will not allow Russia to annex Ukraine!" This is really spiraling out of control Obama will have a hard time getting the UK to agree on tough sanctions. Even tough sanctions may not work on crazy King wannabe Putin. Russia has the propaganda machine going full tilt. So Obama and Congress are backing us into a corner. If sanctions don't work, then what? We have the Military capability to get the job done but does anyone want to risk WW3? Short of that it would bring a lot of death and destruction. I have read that we already have NATO planes flying in the region. What happens if war breaks out between Ukraine and Russia? Do we come to Ukraine's defense? I think we signed an agreement with them to do just that. I think if Russia takes part of Ukraine there will be great temptation to keep expanding. Georgia then Ukraine and on and on until the Soviet Union is back together. They need to pay a price with sanctions. $Billions have been lost in their stock market already. Putin will only care when the Russian people start rioting
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#4836053
Lvl 4
I guess Crimea is lost to Russia. Some 70,000 Russian troops are in Crimea. Looks like most citizens of Crimea want to be Russians and be ruled by an autocrat ie dictator. Obama is really an idiot(so is our Congress for pushing him to say it)--we won't let Russia do this, he said. He would have been better off saying the Crimea people could do what they wanted to do. So now we are stuck giving $1 billion tax payer dollars to the other part of Ukraine that doesn't know its ass from a hole in the ground. IMO. So now Obama says we will defend Poland. I bet a domino effect start happening to where other pro Russia citizens want to get back under Russian rule. Russia will then invade those countries
#4836503
Lvl 4
Pretty amazing how the west broke its promise to protect the Ukraine. The Ukraine said it would give up it's Nuclear weapons if the west agreed to protect it from invaders. This was back in 1991. Now the Ukraine said it made a big mistake trusting us. They say they may try and get Nukes again. But really, if they ever used Nukes against Russia, the retaliation would wipe them out. I don't think Russia is moving all those troops in just do they can control the east. Russia's business King pins said Putin told them they should bring their money home and not invest it outside of the Country. This was awhile back. So Putin was probably planning on stirring up trouble. Russian business leaders are worried about Russia being economically isolated. They say they don't think Putin was told what economic disaster would be if he invaded. Others say he did but didn't believe the west would follow through with harsh sanctions. He is probably correct. But if he invades the west............
#4836643
Lvl 4
Crimea river
F1098, Davey45 find this awesome.
#4836817
Lvl 4
Ya Lia if we were going to defend them then we should have stationed troops there. Russia has a head start on us with an estimated 70,000 troops in place. They have moved in helicopter gunships etc. They are just waiting on the March 16 referendum. I bet they are doing all this to put pressure on the western side of Ukraine to make a deal in their favor. We sent sent F-16s to Poland and Russia responded by sending warplanes to their ally. The German Chancellor has come out and said the annexation of Crimea cannot happen. That Russia better negotiate or else harsh economic sanctions will happen.. She was very adamant. So that is all we have is economic sanctions. I think Putin would make Russia go back to the stone ages before he would give in and leave Ukraine. Putin is very wealthy so what does he care? There would have to be massive protest in Russia. That may happen when the common Russian people start suffering financially. The wealthy are already suffering financial losses. Putin knew the west had a pact with Ukraine. Pretty stupid to invade and put us in this position over a tiny country like Ukraine
#4836980
Lvl 4
To show what scum Putin is he is now cutting the Russian people off from the Internet. Putting Russian government mouth pieces in national media outlets. Right out of the play book of the old USSR
#4836989
Lvl 59
Quote:
Originally posted by Lia
We are members of NATO so we are obligated to defend them by treaty


Except Ukraine is not a member of NATO
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