What should the West do about Ukraine?

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Originally posted by NightCruiser

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So what is some of the Ukrainian people want to be ruled by a dictator? Putin could have invited them all to move back to Russia. Putin could have negotiated that happening with Ukraine and other countries in the region--if it was all about the Russian speakers.

Would you want to move away from your home? Is it fair to tell the 70% - 80% of the population of Crimea that supports rejoining Russia that they have to move? Or is it more fair to tell the 20%-30% that they have to move if they don't want to rejoin Russia? Either way it sucks for some people.

Quote:

Originally posted by NighCruiser

The Soviet Union broke apart for a reason. Many surrounding countries now living in fear that Russia will work with pockets of Russian speakers in their country to destabilize them too. Russia had a puppet leading Ukraine. When it lost that puppet is when the trouble began. Now we have Russian troops massed along East Ukraine and a Civil war. NATO beefing up its presence in the region. How is that good for anyone? Easy for you to say living far away in Canada but many of these surrounding countries remember what it was like to be ruled by a Dictator. When a Dictator starts moving his troops closer to you--that is not a good thing. Lets face reality. Putin is a dictator. He was in office and then out--but still in control behind the scenes. Then he was in again. Obama on the other had will serve 8 years max with no chance of returning as President.
Russia and China are teaming up now. That is a joke! I don't think they want to provoke Germany and Japan into building up their Military's. Japan has already started i9ncreasing their Military budget in response to China being aggressive in the island dispute

As for all this...I'm not going to bother replying to it, because none of it is factual, its all your opinion, conspiracy theory type stuff, and fear mongering.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugarpie

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Would you want to move away from your home? Is it fair to tell the 70% - 80% of the population of Crimea that supports rejoining Russia that they have to move? Or is it more fair to tell the 20%-30% that they have to move if they don't want to rejoin Russia? Either way it sucks for some people.

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As for all this...I'm not going to bother replying to it, because none of it is factual, its all your opinion, conspiracy theory type stuff, and fear mongering.

Obviously you don't keep up with current events. You don't even read or believe the news I spoon feed you China is meeting with Russia to form closer ties This was in the news yesterday. Also there was an article a month ago showing where Putin could serve 24 years in all.
I would move if my home was in UKRAINE and I wanted to be in Russia

n/m..............

I feel so sorry for all of the normal everyday people in that region who are caught in the middle and have no place to go. The Russian Doctrine is being pushed to it's unnatural limits, Vladimir Putin is nothing but a modern Hitler/Stalin wannabee. I am afraid where all of this could lead to. I am not so much afraid of this for the adults, my biggest concern is for the children.....

Quote:

Originally posted by NightCruiser

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Obviously you don't keep up with current events. You don't even read or believe the news I spoon feed you China is meeting with Russia to form closer ties This was in the news yesterday. Also there was an article a month ago showing where Putin could serve 24 years in all.
I would move if my home was in UKRAINE and I wanted to be in Russia

Don't keep up with the news? I am the news. I'm 3 weeks away from graduating university with a bachelors degree in broadcast journalism.

And yes...that whole rambling paragraph you wrote is nonsense. You might have some vague semi truthful references thrown in periodically, but its far from the actual truth. You make massive assumptions and speculations about everything. Russia and China teaming up?? How so? They've met a few times recently to discuss various issues such as trade, and more recently to discuss Russia's role in CICA - Conference on Interaction and Confidence Building Measures in Asia. Which is a multi-national forum for enhancing cooperation towards promoting peace, security and stability in Asia. So I'm not sure what you mean by "teaming up" but you're using half truths and speculation to fear monger. Perhaps you'd like a lesson in journalism?

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Originally posted by Sugarpie

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Don't keep up with the news? I am the news. I'm 3 weeks away from graduating university with a bachelors degree in broadcast journalism.

And yes...that whole rambling paragraph you wrote is nonsense. You might have some vague semi truthful references thrown in periodically, but its far from the actual truth. You make massive assumptions and speculations about everything. Russia and China teaming up?? How so? They've met a few times recently to discuss various issues such as trade, and more recently to discuss Russia's role in CICA - Conference on Interaction and Confidence Building Measures in Asia. Which is a multi-national forum for enhancing cooperation towards promoting peace, security and stability in Asia. So I'm not sure what you mean by "teaming up" but you're using half truths and speculation to fear monger. Perhaps you'd like a lesson in journalism?

First of all congratulations on you upcoming graduation, that is a fantastic accomplishment, again congratulations.

China is going to be a much bigger problem than the Russian could ever hope to be, so we need to worry bout one problem at a time....

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugarpie

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Don't keep up with the news? I am the news. I'm 3 weeks away from graduating university with a bachelors degree in broadcast journalism.

And yes...that whole rambling paragraph you wrote is nonsense. You might have some vague semi truthful references thrown in periodically, but its far from the actual truth. You make massive assumptions and speculations about everything. Russia and China teaming up?? How so? They've met a few times recently to discuss various issues such as trade, and more recently to discuss Russia's role in CICA - Conference on Interaction and Confidence Building Measures in Asia. Which is a multi-national forum for enhancing cooperation towards promoting peace, security and stability in Asia. So I'm not sure what you mean by "teaming up" but you're using half truths and speculation to fear monger. Perhaps you'd like a lesson in journalism?

"I am the news" statement makes no sense. Maybe learning how to report the news. Does not take a degree to read and comprehend the news. This is one article where Russia is turning to China. I didn't say a military alliance is forming--yet. I couldn't find the original article. Bloomberg is not a FOX type website:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-17/putin-seeks-closer-russia-china-ties-without-military-alliance.html

Military Alliance
By Vladimir Kuznetsov and Anna Andrianova Apr 17, 2014 5:54 AM ET
0 Comments Email Print


"Russia will widen cooperation with China, while not seeking to form a military bloc with its neighbor, President Vladimir Putin said.

Russia and China are “natural neighbors and therefore natural partners,” Putin said during his annual televised call-in show in Moscow today. Still, a system of military blocs has “outlived itself,” he said.

The crisis in Ukraine has increased the importance of Russia’s relationship with China, its largest trade partner outside the European Union and the only country in the United Nations Security Council not to censure its actions in Crimea. Putin is due to meet Chinese President Xi Jinping in Beijing next month to discuss issues including a potential 30-year gas-supply deal.

“Our relations with China are developing quite successfully and are at an unprecedentedly high level of trust and cooperation,” Putin said. “China will be the world’s No. 1 power eventually. That can be considered a hard fact.” ...."

Quote:

Originally posted by NightCruiser

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This is one article where Russia is turning to China. I didn't say a military alliance is forming--yet.

And thats the problem. You didn't say anything. You make the statement that Russian and China are teaming up, but you don't say how. You leave it hanging out there but incorporate it a statement that makes it look as if Russia and China are joining military forces. You call it a joke, and then you go into some completely off topic nonsense rant about about provoking Germany and Japan. As I said before, its conspiracy theory nonsense and I'v already given WAY too much time and effort discussing it.

But before I end, why is Russia and China discussing trade "a joke"? China is the largest economy on earth, the US and China have discussed trade before. Russia and China share a huge border, shouldn't they discuss certain strategic partnerships...just as the US and Canada have? OMG...the US and China are teaming up to take over Canada, why can't you see it? I've presented partial facts and jumped to a wild conclusion based on nothing but my own opinion, but its true.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugarpie

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And thats the problem. You didn't say anything. You make the statement that Russian and China are teaming up, but you don't say how. You leave it hanging out there but incorporate it a statement that makes it look as if Russia and China are joining military forces. You call it a joke, and then you go into some completely off topic nonsense rant about about provoking Germany and Japan. As I said before, its conspiracy theory nonsense and I'v already given WAY too much time and effort discussing it.

But before I end, why is Russia and China discussing trade "a joke"? China is the largest economy on earth, the US and China have discussed trade before. Russia and China share a huge border, shouldn't they discuss certain strategic partnerships...just as the US and Canada have? OMG...the US and China are teaming up to take over Canada, why can't you see it? I've presented partial facts and jumped to a wild conclusion based on nothing but my own opinion, but its true.

Really Ms News lady? China has the largest economy in the world? haha. Not by a long shot. Put Russia and China together and they still fall short of the USA. Gross Domestic Product: I think it should be listed as $Trillions for the top countries listed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29

Country/Region GDP (Millions of US$)
World 72,689,734
1 United States 16,244,600
2 China 8,358,400
3 Japan 5,960,180
4 Germany 3,425,956
5 France 2,611,221
6 United Kingdom 2,517,630
7 Brazil 2,254,109
8 Russia 2,029,812
9 Italy 2,013,392
10 India 1,875,213
11 Canada 1,821,445
Australia 1,564,419
13 Spain 1,322,126
14 Mexico 1,183,655
15 South Korea 1,129,598
16 Indonesia 878,043
17 Netherlands 800,535
18 Turkey 788,299
19 Saudi Arabia 711,050
20 Switzerland 631,183
21 Iran 551,588
22 Sweden 523,804
23 Norway 499,667
24 Poland 489,852
25 Belgium 483,402
26 Argentina 477,028
27 Austria 394,458
28 Thailand 385,694
29 South Africa 384,313
30 United Arab Emirates 383,799
31 Venezuela 382,424
32 Colombia 369,813
33 Denmark 314,889
34 Malaysia 304,726
35 Singapore 276,520
36 Chile 268,314
Hong Kong 263,259
37 Nigeria 262,545
38 Egypt 254,671
39 Philippines 250,182
40 Greece 248,941
41 Finland 247,389
42 Israel 241,069
43 Pakistan 215,117
44 Portugal 212,139
45 Ireland 210,638
46 Algeria 207,021
47 Peru 204,681
48 Kazakhstan 202,656
49 Czech Republic 196,446
50 Qatar 192,402
51 Kuwait 183,219
52 Ukraine 176,309
53 New Zealand 171,256
54 Romania 169,396
55 Vietnam 155,820
56 Iraq 149,370
57 Bangladesh 127,195
58 Hungary 124,600
59 Angola 116,308
Puerto Rico 103,516
60 Morocco 95,992
61 Libya 95,802
62 Slovakia 91,349
63 Ecuador 87,495
64 Oman 78,111
65 Cuba 71,017
66 Azerbaijan 68,727
67 Belarus 63,259
68 Myanmar 59,444
69 Sri Lanka 59,421
70 Dominican Republic 58,898
71 Croatia 56,447
72 Luxembourg 55,143
73 Sudan 51,453
74 Uzbekistan 51,414
75 Bulgaria 50,972
76 Guatemala 50,377
77 Uruguay 49,919
78 Syria 46,540
79 Slovenia 45,380
80 Tunisia 45,132
81 Costa Rica 45,107
Macau 43,582
82 Sierra Leone 43,366
83 Lebanon 42,490
84 Lithuania 42,339
85 Ethiopia 41,605
86 Ghana 40,711
87 Kenya 40,697
88 Serbia

I could be wrong, but if we are now comparing the GDP of various nations, the conversation may have strayed off topic.

Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/04/17/jews-ordered-to-register-in-east-ukraine/7816951/

This headline hits pretty close to home for me being I am part Jew, it kinda lines up with good old Hitler and Stalin. I am a practicing Catholic, but I am of Jewish heritage. And we jus recently had a white neo-Nazi/Klansman nut job here in this country kill people because he thought that they were Jewish. I don't have a tremendous amount of Hebrew in me so I am not worried but does it matter to someone who hates the Jews? And this morning on the radio and here online, Vlad Putin confesses that the armed men in uniform that were in Crimea with no insignia were Russian Special Forces, hmmmm like we didn't see that one coming. Now we know for sure that what he was trying to do was to destabilize Eastern Ukraine. And if they can get people in other countries to argue about it the end result is that we are not paying attention to the resurgent Russian ambitions...

Quote:

Originally posted by NightCruiser

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Really Ms News lady? China has the largest economy in the world? haha. Not by a long shot. Put Russia and China together and they still fall short of the USA. Gross Domestic Product: I think it should be listed as $Trillions for the top countries listed

Yeah ok, you got me. I meant to say outside of the USA. I made a mistake...but really...feel free to just pick on the one mistake I made and totally ignore everything else I said...as usual.

Quote:

Originally posted by Lia

Jews ordered to register in east Ukraine

[Link]

This headline hits pretty close to home for me being I am part Jew, it kinda lines up with good old Hitler and Stalin. I am a practicing Catholic, but I am of Jewish heritage. And we jus recently had a white neo-Nazi/Klansman nut job here in this country kill people because he thought that they were Jewish. I don't have a tremendous amount of Hebrew in me so I am not worried but does it matter to someone who hates the Jews? And this morning on the radio and here online, Vlad Putin confesses that the armed men in uniform that were in Crimea with no insignia were Russian Special Forces, hmmmm like we didn't see that one coming. Now we know for sure that what he was trying to do was to destabilize Eastern Ukraine. And if they can get people in other countries to argue about it the end result is that we are not paying attention to the resurgent Russian ambitions...

Certainly very disturbing, concerning, and something to be watched very closely; but again, its important to read the entire story:

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The leaflets bore the name of Denis Pushilin, who is identified as chairman of "Donetsk's temporary government," and were distributed near the Donetsk synagogue and other areas, according to the reports.

Pushilin acknowledged that fliers were distributed under his organization's name in Donetsk but denied any connection to them, Ynet reported in Hebrew. USA TODAY could not independently verify the circumstances surrounding of the leaflet

"We don't know if these notifications were distributed by pro-Russian activists or someone else, but it's serious that it exists,"

It's jus very disturbing that so many people still think like this, this type thing has always gone on in Russia, and the Arab states. And we have places like Iran who try to say that the holocaust never even happened. Tonight on ABC news our governments Sec of State John Kerry says that these demands against citizens in Easter Ukraine whether Jewish or otherwise are "grotesque and unacceptable".

Quote:

Originally posted by Lia

And this morning on the radio and here online, Vlad Putin confesses that the armed men in uniform that were in Crimea with no insignia were Russian Special Forces, hmmmm like we didn't see that one coming.]

Well... there was a person or two in this thread who were adamant (and vocal) about them being militants, and not actual Russian forces... Soo...

Quote:

Originally posted by Lia

It's jus very disturbing that so many people still think like this, this type thing has always gone on in Russia, and the Arab states. And we have places like Iran who try to say that the holocaust never even happened. Tonight on ABC news our governments Sec of State John Kerry says that these demands against citizens in Easter Ukraine whether Jewish or otherwise are "grotesque and unacceptable".

Agreed that it is very disturbing, all I'm saying is that we don't know who distributed those flyers. It could have been pro Russian supporters, but it also could have been a Ukrainian neo nazi group. I'll reserve any judgement until we know who is behind it.

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Originally posted by Bangledesh

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Well... there was a person or two in this thread who were adamant (and vocal) about them being militants, and not actual Russian forces... Soo...

Thats not true, I've said from day one in this thread that there were Russian soldiers in Crimea for the better part of the last 2 decades. Could some of them been special forces...I suppose so, it was never brought up until just today. What I said was that the protests in EASTERN UKRAINE were likely pro Russian militants and not very likely to be Russian soldiers.

I am not going to argue with you, you are right there are way to many variables to be absolutely sure about anything. The one thing that I am sure of is that you are a very intelligent women, and you can be a real tigress. I have a very high opinion bout you and I am jus glad that I am on your side

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Originally posted by Sugarpie

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Thats not true, I've said from day one in this thread that there were Russian soldiers in Crimea for the better part of the last 2 decades. Could some of them been special forces...I suppose so, it was never brought up until just today. What I said was that the protests in EASTERN UKRAINE were likely pro Russian militants and not very likely to be Russian soldiers.

So the guys in Crimea were Russian forces but the guys in Eastern Ukraine who have the exact same uniform and russian equipment, and the same course of action (taking key public buildings) are not ? Maybe so but it's less and less likely.

Looks like they have reach some sort of an agreement. Putin still keep threatening with the Military.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-18/ukraine-accord-puts-onus-on-russia-as-skepticism-reigns.html