How Bad Is American Health Care...Really?

Now, before the super patriots roll in here flags-a-wavin, I'm not trying to troll you guys. The only reason I say your health care is bad in the thread title, is because I hear about how bad it is sometimes.

I'm a Canadian. I chug maple syrup, and I ride a moose to work at my job as a Mountie, but, I also don't personally pay for health care. Yes, as far as I know our taxes might be higher to pay for it, but still.

I hear a lot of bullshit about our health care as well, that you have to choose doctors that are designated by the government, and the wait lists are crazy long and all sorts of shenanigans, but in reality you just go to whatever doctor you feel like going to. You make an appointment, and there is sometimes a weeks wait, depending on the doctor, but emergency rooms are always pretty quick. The longest I've ever waited in an ER was when I was thirteen, I had to wait about two hours because I thought I had broken my nose when I ran into a friend of mine who was a lot shorter than I am. I had to wait because they took a few cases that were more serious than I was.

So, about two years ago my brother fell down the stairs and hit his head on a doorknob. He had to be airlifted to a major hospital, ambulances...at one point the police came, it was a big ordeal. It cost nothing. Asshole got to ride in a fucking helicopter for free, jerk.

Now on the flip side, I hear people can actually die in America from shit that CAN BE cured? Is this actually true?
I mean, if you need heart surgery, and you don't have health insurance..can you fucking die?

Also, how much is health insurance? What does it cover?

Sorry, I'm guessing someone can explain this better, I just don't know a lot about American health care.

What are HMO's all about?

I heard a story about a man who lost two fingers, and he had to decided if he could AFFORD to have them reattached in America...does this shit happen?

Now that you've heard about how pretty awesome Canadian health care is...short, if any wait time, and choosing doctors on your own...being able to walk into any hospital, for any reason..and not pay a cent, do you prefer Americas health care system?

I'll hit this up in detail tomorrow when I'm not tired and have time to give an intelligent response...

But the quick version is that, sure, you can find some outlying cases of craziness like the finger dude, but, for the most part, everyone who is in need of emergency care gets it, regardless of their ability to pay or not. That being said, there are plenty of problems with the current system, but every nation has 'horror stories' about their system.

If I lost my insurance tomorrow, and fell down like your brother and hit my head on a doorknob and needed to be airlifted to the hospital, they would do it, and then they would send me a bill. Depending on the hospital and all that, you can probably get a lot of that money bargained down, but, yeah, you'll still have a bill for it.

Brutal honesty is that every system has its problems. Lots of people love the Canadian system, but there are also lots who hate it because of something it did to them. Same with the US system. The main differences between the two are who is responsible and who has control. In the US, you are responsible for your own care. In emergency situations, you will be taken care of no matter what but you may have to pay for it if you don't have insurance or your insurance isn't very good.

Really, a lot of the problems in the US are because the government acts like health care is a personal responsibility, but then passes laws to tie you to an employer for your care and force you to pay for care you don't want. I have no need for maternity or birth control coverage, but I have to pay for it anyway and the only way I can afford insurance at all is through my employer because the government doesn't give you tax credit for buying care yourself. Add to that the trial lawyers whose lawsuits aren't that much of the cost but do add a ton of extra testing as doctors go into ass-covering mode and you can see why our system costs so much.

Personally, I think tort reform and divorcing insurance from employment would fix 90% of the problems with health care in the US. The savings from just those would allow for a better medicare/medicaid system to be funded for the poor.

thanks for the info EL/RTFW..

i guess in Australia, our system is in between..
but leaning more towards the canadian system...

I get 'free' care whenever i choose to go to my GP, or any GP..
the govt foots the bill (my taxes)
If i chose to have my elective surgery in the public system, i can..
If i chose to use my private health insurance for it instead, I can....or If my insurance doesnt cover maternity costs..
and my wife 'accidentally' gets pregnant, I can go and use the public system.

I pay for the free health care, but I have the choice to pay for what I want too..and get a rebate on my medicare..



it be interesting to hear more US comments/storys..

For me personally it sucks out loud. I work full time and have since I was 16 but have no insurance anyway. Like everyone says you can get health care if you really need it. They won't turn you away but they'll also put you in 10's of thousands of dollars in debt with no problem.

The rich and the poor in this country are incredibly well taken care of. If you don't give a shit about your credit or debt you can get all the health care you want. But it's the middle class people who are uninsured like myself who don't want to ruin their credit who carry all the bullshit of the system. I won't go to a doctor for any reason at any time. 2 weeks ago I was in massive pain and everybody I know was trying to drag me to a doctor cause everyone thought I had appendicitis(sp?) and it was gonna burst and kill me or some shit Did I go to the doctor? fuck no cause I'd rather die young with a little cash then old and in debt up to my ears.

I hadn't been to a doctor for 14 years until a few years ago when my finger got cut pretty bad....


Anyway for 8 fuckin stitches I got a bill totaling $4,698.77. For 8 FUCKING STICHES, a damn antibiotic iv drip, x-rays. In hind sight I should've just super glued my damn finger closed. That's the last time I'll go to any doctor under my own will for anything. Next time I'll be unconscious and someone who loves me will have to drag me there because I just won't go.

In the US if you're middle class and don't have insurance for some reason then you have to choose between physical pain and death or financial pain and death. Personally I'll choose physical every time. Some studies have said that over 60% of all bankruptcies in this country are due to medical bills.

Quote:

Originally posted by Honda

I heard a story about a man who lost two fingers, and he had to decided if he could AFFORD to have them reattached in America...does this shit happen?

Absolutely it happens. If I lose 2 fingers I'll be down 2 fingers. I'm not payin some doctor $50,000 or some shit to put them back on. I mean if 8 stitches on a cut cost me almost $5,000 I can't imagine what it costs to reattach 2 fingers and I damn sure wouldn't go bother to find out. I'd just krazy glue the hell out of it to stop the bleeding and go about my business.

If you're wondering why I keep bringing up krazy glue it's because the male nurse who attended to my finger before the doctor told me in confidence "man, you have no insurance? You could probably just have put some krazy glue on this and it would've closed up. The only problem would be possible infection." The nurse then proceeded to show me his crooked ass pinky where he had once krazy glued a cut similar to mine which he got previous to being a nurse and having insurance. Yes in the US a supposed health care professional will advice you to treat your own wounds with glue bought from an office supply store in order to avoid life destroying bills and ya know just don't worry about that silly infection stuff. And they say we're fuckin civilized.

American health care can run the gamut from great to non existant. I've had state employee health care( good), no health care(unemployed and using the ER..pretty shitty) Union health care(lousy) HMO health care( not so great either, you need permission for everything from the insurance company plus damned expensive and VA health care ( excellent) I think the VA(Veterans Administration for you non Americans) could be a great model for national health care. MY VA hospital is great, but I've heard horror stories elsewhere.Plus I am a Vietnam combat vet and get some priority for that. Thats my take at 1AM

Super glue and duct tape are actually quite useful for cuts.

I'm not a fan of going to the doctor, unless there's like an actual reason to go. Like, I'm not one of those people who are like "Doctors are the devil!" or anything like that, I just don't want to deal with the hoopla. Like, when I accidentally got hit in the hand by a hatchet, I just cleaned and bandaged it up, because aside from seeing bone and tendons it didn't much feel like a doctor problem.

But if I feel like it's a doctor problem, I'll go to a doctor. Like I did a few months back, when I ended up at the ER. It cost my family like $1800 after insurance (all they did was drop an IV and take a few tests and crap.)


Also,

Quote:

Originally posted by Honda_X

So, about two years ago my brother fell down the stairs and hit his head on a doorknob. He had to be airlifted to a major hospital, ambulances...at one point the police came, it was a big ordeal. It cost nothing. Asshole got to ride in a fucking helicopter for free, jerk.

so even with insurance you have to pay??

The problem is, if we institute Healthcare Reform, we'll be one step closer to destroying the Republic. It's almost in the bag now as things stand. Socialism and now Fascism are upon us here in the States, and if anyone doesn't believe that, go study a bit about Mussolini and Corporatism.

So, yes, as bad as Healthcare costs can be in the USA, there's at least freedom of choice and ready availability of care. Allowing the Federal Government to dictate how Healthcare gets handled will turn into what everything does that Politicians get their claws into -- a quagmire.

Quote:

Originally posted by Honda_X

[ Image ]

I'm a Canadian. I chug maple syrup, and I ride a moose to work at my job as a Mountie,

You neglected to mention that you have beavers on your money.

Quote:

Originally posted by Latino

so even with insurance you have to pay??

Yes we pay a fee to have the insurance which comes out of our paychecks (some employers pay part) and we pay a "co-pay" when u go to the doctors office usually between $5-$30. That's if you go to a doctor on their approved list, if your doctor is not on the approved list you have to pay more!

Quote:

Originally posted by J-Swiss

For me personally it sucks out loud. I work full time and have since I was 16 but have no insurance anyway. Like everyone says you can get health care if you really need it. They won't turn you away but they'll also put you in 10's of thousands of dollars in debt with no problem.

The rich and the poor in this country are incredibly well taken care of. If you don't give a shit about your credit or debt you can get all the health care you want. But it's the middle class people who are uninsured like myself who don't want to ruin their credit who carry all the bullshit of the system. I won't go to a doctor for any reason at any time. 2 weeks ago I was in massive pain and everybody I know was trying to drag me to a doctor cause everyone thought I had appendicitis(sp?) and it was gonna burst and kill me or some shit Did I go to the doctor? fuck no cause I'd rather die young with a little cash then old and in debt up to my ears.

I hadn't been to a doctor for 14 years until a few years ago when my finger got cut pretty bad....
[ Link ]

Anyway for 8 fuckin stitches I got a bill totaling $4,698.77. For 8 FUCKING STICHES, a damn antibiotic iv drip, x-rays. In hind sight I should've just super glued my damn finger closed. That's the last time I'll go to any doctor under my own will for anything. Next time I'll be unconscious and someone who loves me will have to drag me there because I just won't go.

In the US if you're middle class and don't have insurance for some reason then you have to choose between physical pain and death or financial pain and death. Personally I'll choose physical every time. Some studies have said that over 60% of all bankruptcies in this country are due to medical bills.

...

Absolutely it happens. If I lose 2 fingers I'll be down 2 fingers. I'm not payin some doctor $50,000 or some shit to put them back on. I mean if 8 stitches on a cut cost me almost $5,000 I can't imagine what it costs to reattach 2 fingers and I damn sure wouldn't go bother to find out. I'd just krazy glue the hell out of it to stop the bleeding and go about my business.

If you're wondering why I keep bringing up krazy glue it's because the male nurse who attended to my finger before the doctor told me in confidence "man, you have no insurance? You could probably just have put some krazy glue on this and it would've closed up. The only problem would be possible infection." The nurse then proceeded to show me his crooked ass pinky where he had once krazy glued a cut similar to mine which he got previous to being a nurse and having insurance. Yes in the US a supposed health care professional will advice you to treat your own wounds with glue bought from an office supply store in order to avoid life destroying bills and ya know just don't worry about that silly infection stuff. And they say we're fuckin civilized.

dude... I would consider myself middle class (less than $50,000/year). And I've NEVER had issues with health care in the US. I pay $15 for my co-pay and the rest is paid for by the insurance company.

I'm not sure what the big freakin deal is about un-insured people...why don't you get some damn insurance! That's like people complaining after a car accident that they don't have insurance... YOU SHOULD HAVE PAID FOR THE DAMN INSURANCE!!!

Quote:

Originally posted by bargerer

a quagmire.

giggity.

Seriously though, having a shitty health care system just to try to uphold some sort of freedom is silly in my opinion. The government controls our health care system, and like I said..there is no loss of freedom. I go to whatever doctor I want, whenever I want...I just don't pay for it.

I seriously don't understand why Americans are so afraid of this shenanigans. Obamalama already said 2/3 of the money can already be acquired by taking it out of useless health care programs. I just see it on the news a lot, and I'm always thinking "So...Obama wants health care to be affordable for everyone..as opposed to some people getting ass raped" and some Americans are all "NOO WAY BRAH, I LOVE IT IN THE BUM!"

But, this is just what I see, and like I said, I don't know a whole hell of a lot, it's why I started this thread. I know a lot of the world has a much better health care system than America, so how bad can it be? Also, adopt the fucking metric system already, fuck.

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/Health%20Care%20Mythology.pdf

It's a bit of a read, but it does a fairly good job of humorously summing up a lot of my thoughts on the whole debate.

Quote:

Originally posted by Honda_X

...

Obamalama already said 2/3 of the money can already be acquired by taking it out of useless health care programs.

He also said he was going to close Gitmo, and that the economic ""stimulus"" was going to improve employment. What baffles me is how anyone can believe there's any shred of truth in anything any Democrat or Republican says...

Is it not true that, under the canadian system, older folks "don't qualify" for things like hip replacements, simply because they're too old?

Quote:

Originally posted by Brogette

I'm not sure what the big freakin deal is about un-insured people...why don't you get some damn insurance! That's like people complaining after a car accident that they don't have insurance... YOU SHOULD HAVE PAID FOR THE DAMN INSURANCE!!!

In all fairness, I'd have to say that someone whosays that has no clue what the cost of health insurance is. I'm paying for mine, so I do know, and it has risen every year since I've been paying, and is now over $500 a month, and that's just for one individual.
Still, I am absolutely, 100% OPPOSED to a single payer, governemtn run HMO.
Also, with all of the hot air blowing in Washington, I do not have a ckue what the bottom line really is/ They say if you have insurance, you can keep what you have. Does that mean I can continue to pay, while others won't have to? I USED TO BE middle class, until they started handing out stimuli left and right, to everyone BUT the "middle class."

Quote:

Originally posted by BillK

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You neglected to mention that you have beavers on your money.


[ Image ]

You are my new favorite poster.

Quote:

Originally posted by TheSaintx3

...

Yes we pay a fee to have the insurance which comes out of our paychecks (some employers pay part) and we pay a "co-pay" when u go to the doctors office usually between $5-$30. That's if you go to a doctor on their approved list, if your doctor is not on the approved list you have to pay more!

wow...

see, we have universal health care here in Oz..we pay for it with our taxes..
If i want to go see a GP, any GP....I dont pay, sometimes...if I go on a weekend, or go to a GP who is not my regular GP, I have to pay, but I'll get 2/3 or so of the fee back.

Quote:

Originally posted by BillK

In all fairness, I'd have to say that someone whosays that has no clue what the cost of health insurance is. I'm paying for mine, so I do know, and it has risen every year since I've been paying, and is now over $500 a month, and that's just for one individual.
Still, I am absolutely, 100% OPPOSED to a single payer, governemtn run HMO.
Also, with all of the hot air blowing in Washington, I do not have a ckue what the bottom line really is/ They say if you have insurance, you can keep what you have. Does that mean I can continue to pay, while others won't have to? I USED TO BE middle class, until they started handing out stimuli left and right, to everyone BUT the "middle class."

$500 a month?? holy shit..
I pay for cover for me and my family (4 of us) which includes dental, optical, physio, chiro etc.. (except maternity, hip replacement etc) and It costs me around $160 a month..
there are limits to how much I can claim on those things a year, but If i ever go over those limits, I can use the Public system with no extra cost to me.

When my wife went into labour with our last child, we went public (after going private the first time)
still got the same care, same birthing suite, just no doc, only midwives. Wasnt a problem, my wife had complications...and within minutes the room was full of doctors. So the service was the same or better.

I cant imagine anyone paying so much a month for health care
although we pay a 1.5% medicare levy, which i think from memory.....that if you earn a certain amount, and have private cover, you dont have to pay (partially/entirely...not sure)

Sometimes im ashamed to be a American, our government is completely out of control.

One thing a lot of people aren't grasping is that the system Congress and the President are trying to aim toward is scary for Americans due to what Congress and the President are saying. When you have the President saying people have to get used to less care it isn't good. The constant talk of what is most economically appropriate versus what is best for the patient worries people. And rightfully so since one of the arguments against the current system is that it makes decisions based on finances rather than patient care.

In a recent exchange you can find on YouTube, he told a woman whose mother had a pacemaker at 99 (and is now 105 and still alive) that she probably should have not gotten it and should probably have gotten just some pain pills. In other words, he admitted he cares more about money than people. This has been a constant with this administration and would not be tolerated from any health insurance executive.

Quote:

Originally posted by rocknthefreeworld

This has been a constant with this administration and would not be tolerated from any health insurance executive.

or most other countries citizens....if experiencing similar situations