How Bad Is American Health Care...Really?

Quote:

Originally posted by brownell

....but the fact that Massachusetts, where Democrats outnumber Republican 3 1/2 to 1, voted for a Republican that campaigned on his ability to kill the current heathcare bill says just about all that needs to be said about how America feels about full-blown government run healthcare.

All that says is how Massachusetts feels about it. Definitely not a good factor to determine the feelings of an entire country.

Quote:

Originally posted by Honda_X

Maybe next time America..

Yep. I'll continue going through life with absolutely no medical care whatsoever.

A couple months ago I got bit by somethin on my leg, it turned purple and swelled up the size of half a golf ball. Everyone was like "go to the doctor right now" and I said "fuck no, I'll sooner cut this thing off my leg myself." People don't understand that response for some reason. The thing is still there but it's gone down now, I guess it'll never totally heal cause it's been 2 months and I think it's healed as much as it's going to. I'll spare everyone the gruesome details of how I treated it myself but it wasn't pretty do-it-yourself medical care isn't fun but it's way more lulzy than bankruptcy.

I live in a Free Healthcare country too, i cannot imagine to not have that from the goverment, must be really crazy and if you really think about its cheapier on a longterm basis to have healthy citizen than people dieing everywhere in the streets. I pay about 60% of my salary to tax (this is the HIGH tax rates though, based on your income) Most people here pay about.. 49% in taxes.. What do we get for that? Free education (university,college,highschool etc ) Medicalcare (they even give you a cab to germany to get operated if ur on a waitinglist), dentalcare (untill your 18, but they are making that free to soon i think) Students get about 200$ dollars a month to help them pay for food/rent, and so on. Only thing that really pisses me off, is that they put 180% in taxes on the car / MC prize when you buy a new one

of cause you can discuss the quality of a publichealthcare system, but i think the one here is really high and definetely better than nothing
and btw. My mom died of cancer a couple of years ago, after fighting it for approx. 5 years (Got "cured", and diagnosed with it again 1 year after) i can't imagine how much we would have payed for Kemo, Laser therapy.. Wigs (when she lost her hair, it got payed) and hospital beds.. Im glad we got those years with her, and i feel sorry for anyone else who have been in same situation in a country with no healthcare.

From what i've seen on TV American pay WAAAAAAAAY to much for medicine, and treatments.. thats is just wrong..

Yeah, man, if I get cancer I'll just go ahead and die happily cause my wife would at least get my life insurance. If I go to a hospital I'm gonna die eventually anyway except I'll leave such a huge medical bill behind my wife will lose all my life insurance money to the bills.

The way I live I might as well be in a 3rd world country lol. You can get treatment if you don't mind ruining yours and your families life in the process with mountains of debt nobody can afford to pay but I'm not ok with that. If somethings wrong with my wife then I'll take her and suffer the wrath of the medical industry but if it's me fuck it, I will do ANYTHING to avoid going anywhere near a doctor and that includes dying.

That is why im glad to be in a country who doesn't makes everything about dollars and cents.. Maybe with obamas new plan.. all this could end up being history soon, which i hope for all people living inside the U.S.

You almost do live in a 3rd world country, but you still have to pay for the voodoo doctor, Africans don't its a part of their Tribe welfare system

Quote:

Originally posted by Davallia

That is why im glad to be in a country who doesn't makes everything about dollars and cents..

Oh yeah ... I believe you just said you pay 60 percent in taxes in an earlier post. Whether you're paying for your own healthcare, or paying extra taxes for so called "free government healthcare" ... it's still about dollars and cents.

3rd world country? Huh? I don't know about that. My aunt had breast cancer about 10 years ago. She is fully recovered after about 5 years of treatment. No mountain of debt. Her and my uncle weren't rich. She is a manager in a grocery store, he's a carpenter ... they made it through her situation just fine.

Quote:

Originally posted by hornithologist

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Oh yeah ... I believe you just said you pay 60 percent in taxes in an earlier post. Whether you're paying for your own healthcare, or paying extra taxes for so called "free government healthcare" ... it's still about dollars and cents.

3rd world country? Huh? I don't know about that. My aunt had breast cancer about 10 years ago. She is fully recovered after about 5 years of treatment. No mountain of debt. Her and my uncle weren't rich. She is a manager in a grocery store, he's a carpenter ... they made it through her situation just fine.

Your taking what im saying OUT of context.. as i also said.. most people pay less.. Its all about how much your earn a year that defines how much you pay in taxes.. someone earning 50.000$ a year will pay around 49% .. 7% of that is to your pension which is also payed by the goverment. Also you can take some of your salary and take it as taxfree, cause you dont have to pay taxes for unions,stockholds,loans etc. Yes you can pay for your own health insurance, but as what i know we are also discussing people here who can't pay for insurance, and that maybe means high bills, for treatments and such, i dont see how you can compare this at all.... Everyone in my country gets treated equally, politicians, policemen, homeless, drug addicts.. If you wan't "extra special# treatment Or maybe a private room on the hospital.. then you pay for insurance on a private hospital


Well you aunt is a lucky women then, and im not that into the American healthsystem that i know who makes it without debts and not.. only thing i can say is that i hear a lot more of sad stories, than the other way around

Quote:

Originally posted by Davallia

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Well you aunt is a lucky women then, and im not that into the American healthsystem that i know who makes it without debts and not.. only thing i can say is that i hear a lot more of sad stories, than the other way around

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think these "sad stories" are all that common. But what do I know ... I just live here.

BTW ... sorry for the loss of your mother.

Quote:

Originally posted by hornithologist

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Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think these "sad stories" are all that common. But what do I know ... I just live here.

BTW ... sorry for the loss of your mother.

Thank you, and yes we'll probarly never agree.. i have lived "over there" for some time, i did not use the medical system.. since the army already have one But i did get to talk to some of your fellow countrymen

Quote:

Originally posted by Davallia

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Thank you, and yes we'll probarly never agree.. i have lived "over there" for some time, i did not use the medical system.. since the army already have one But i did get to talk to some of your fellow countrymen

Davallia,

Haven't read this entire thread so I am sorry to ask again if you already posted this, but what country do you live in?

American health care is kinda like American hockey...

Good, but you know....not the best.

Quote:

Originally posted by Honda_X

American health care is kinda like American hockey...

Good, but you know....not the best.

Lol ... this is the third thread I've seen you bragging about the win in so far. Yeah, we get it, Canada won ... your supposed to win at hockey ... christ, that's all you do up there. well, besides repair your igloos when it gets unseasonably warm.

Quote:

Originally posted by hornithologist

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Lol ... this is the third thread I've seen you bragging about the win in so far. Yeah, we get it, Canada won ... your supposed to win at hockey ... christ, that's all you do up there. well, besides repair your igloos when it gets unseasonably warm.

So, we don't take the Panel issues out of the Panel, I think we also don't take not-Panel issues into the Panel.

Just from my experience I know this. For years I had an HMO from a major insurer and now that I am retired and can't afford healthcare(I,m 65 with some minor heart problems and they want $900/mo for a shitty HMO with high co pays. i now get my healthcare at the VA and its far better than anything the HMO offered me.

Yeah my mom just got laid off and can't find a job because of her age and so she's gettin raped by insurance. You feel incredibly powerless and hopeless when you deal with them. It's enough to make you want to go down to the home office and start kickin in doors and bustin heads. Cause you know the people fucking you over are just pussy ass pencil pushers. I hate being pushed around by people who's asses I could kick.

Quote:

Originally posted by J-Swiss

It's enough to make you want to go down to the home office and start kickin in doors and bustin heads. Cause you know the people fucking you over are just pussy ass pencil pushers. I hate being pushed around by people who's asses I could kick.

DO IT!


... or try to hold on long enough for the Government to extort enough through taxation and mandates to pay for everyone. Just make sure to take full advantage of it before the Federal Govnt goes bankrupt. 3 cheers for socialism, Hip Hip Hooray! Hip Hip Hooray! Hip Hip Hooray!

I agree, Brownell. I don't like the government controlling shit all that much but our current system is a complete failure so what else do we do?

The people who run the healthcare system now already extort the hell out of us and are totally profit driven and don't give 2 half a fucks about your health at all and regularly drop and/or deny coverage to the people who need it the very most. It's easy to say "well, your idea sucks" but it's pretty damn hard to come up with a good answer.

Personally I wouldn't be opposed to a few public hangings of some of the worst insurance company CEO's. Maybe it would encourage the rest of them to stop being so greedy and to get their system in working order. There's absolutely no reason why healthcare or insurance should cost even a fraction of what it does, it only costs so much because so many people are getting filthy rich off of it. Health should not be a commodity but that's what they've made it. The rich and the dirt poor deserve health, the middle class working man who's company is small and doesn't provide health insurance deserve to suffer basically.

That's the only reason I'm open to a government option because at the very least it has to force the private companies to re-evaluate their pricing and to make some changes. Right now there is no incentive for them to change anything because they're making a fortune fucking people over and their only competition are other companies doing the exact same thing.

And is Canada bankrupt? They seem to do a fine job taking care of their citizens without bankruptcy.

Our system is not a complete failure, but it's been ruined because there's no limits on medical liability for medical practitioners and pharmaceutical companies. Cap the lawsuits, stop frivolous suites, and then insurance companies don't have infinite risk, so they won't have to charge premiums to cover that infinite risk.


BTW, Canada has roughly the same national debt per person as the USA does, but that's only since 2008, before that in your lifetime, the USA had a lower deficit and a lower unemployment rate than Canada, so if you think Canada has a "better" economy than the USA, you'd be mistaken. Yeah, their ship is sinking a little slower than ours right now because bottom finally fell out in the 4th quarter of 2008 due to the massive expansion of Government that's occurred over the last decade or so, but they're headed to the bottom just like us.

Nobody's saying we don't need healthcare reform, all reasonable people recognize that everything health related is way over-priced, but the answer is controlling the costs, not trying to collect the same or more money to pay the bill from those that aren't unemployed.... yet.

brownell, while practitioner liability is a big issue, it's not the main driver of price increases.

The third-party payer system in general acts as a disincentive for people to make cost-conscious decisions about their own health and artificially inflates demand for services.

What would gas cost, and how much of it would people use, if your car insurance covered it, or you had a 1-2 dollar co-pay per fill up?

Quote:

Originally posted by J-Swiss

I agree, Brownell. I don't like the government controlling shit all that much but our current system is a complete failure so what else do we do?

How about the government quit saying the free-market failed and admit that it was too much government control of the free-market that failed. The three biggest issues with cost of direct personal insurance are the fact that most people can not buy insurance across state lines, government mandates on coverage minimums, and the fact that individuals do not get tax deductions for their insurance. Every one of those is due to government action. Every state has their own insurance laws which require tons of overhead costs due to duplication of offices, staff, and varying products that have to be tailored for each state. Add to that all of the problems with cost control on the actual provider side and things get real ugly real quick. But even then, most of that is due to government action in the first place.

Just wait. Government will say it is failing and they can make it work if we give them more control. Then, when they have all of the control and it is still failing, they will say it would work if we only gave them more money.