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2012 Presidential Election POLL

Starter: [Deleted] Posted: 12 years ago Views: 18.1K
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#4732348
Lvl 25
Quote:
Originally posted by moss

PERSONAL ATTACK


PFFFTTTT HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That's right insult me because you can't refute any of the actual evidence put before you. Keep [regurgitating media talking points] and let them do the thinking for you. I'm sure they have the best intentions for you.

Quote:
Originally posted by moss

This election is clearly about those of us who WORK for our pay checks & those of you who VOTE for yours.


Oh shit, so now I don't work? I better tell the company that I work for that I don't and they should stop paying me.

Quote:
Originally posted by moss

Stop living on the tax payers put on your big boy pants, pull up your boot straps on and support yourself.


Except I'm not taking any money from the government. No assistence of any kind. Everything I have I have paid for myself. But then again, making insane assumptions and making statements without any actual evidence is your forte.

Quote:
Originally posted by moss

Remember obama HOPE is not a plan, we saw where that got us the last 4 years so stop insulting the working people.


Again ignoring the fact of how much he has accomplished with the Republicans vehemently opposing every move and decision he has made.

Quote:
Originally posted by moss

obama is a great speaker & thats it! He should be a college teacher since all he does is speak & never gets anything accomplished.


Except for all that stuff I listed before with links to actual facts. But don't let that stop you. Well, you can't probably maintain the attention span required to read any of it.

Quote:
Originally posted by moss

He absolutely doubled our debt


Bush left us with $10 Trillion in Debt. It is now at $16 Trillion. You fail at even basic arithmetic.

Quote:
Originally posted by moss

& NO that was not Bush's fault.


You clearly don't even understand how the economy or government functions. You seem to think that suddenly the second one President leaves out of the office the entirety of budget zeroes out. You also seem to think that the as soon as a President leaves, all of his actions are nulled out. You clearly lack any critical thinking skills. But please call others, who have actual evidence to back up their statements, ignorant. Your bubble of ignorance will keep you warm.



Edited to remove personal attackish-things.
There must be no trace of them left.
-EL
* This post has been modified by EricLindros : 12 years ago
#4732349
Lvl 26
Sugarpie, fair enough.
Did he almost DOUBLE our debt or not...Yes he did!
Did he give our country a bad credit rating that has never been done before with ANY past president until him?...Yes he did!!
Unemployment has been over 8% for over 32 months straight under his watch and has gone up again this last month....TRUE FACT!
He also has the Most ever on welfare & food stamps than any other president...TRUE FACT!
He has no execution of his good speaches...None! thats why he should be a college teacher all they do is speak and never have to put it to use.
"Redistribution of wealth" who in the hell gave him permission to get in my pocket more just because I work and earn more money than someone else????
If you need more money work harder like I do.
Those facts and millions more are why he has FAILED!!
#4732350
Lvl 13
I voted Obama last time. Four years later, I've lost my good-paying job, had to sell my house at a $65,000 loss, and am working as a fast-food restaurant manager (No kidding). All with an engineering PhD. He had his chance and everything has gotten worse.
#4732351
Quote:
Originally posted by moss

Sugarpie, fair enough.
Did he almost DOUBLE our debt or not...Yes he did!
Did he give our country a bad credit rating that has never been done before with ANY past president until him?...Yes he did!!

Well thats what happens when you fight a war for years upon years. As for the "bad credit rating"...its isn't really bad...its just not as good as it once was. Again, a lot of the is the war that Obama inherited, combined with the downward trend in the economy when he took office.

Quote:
Originally posted by moss
Unemployment has been over 8% for over 32 months straight under his watch and has gone up again this last month....TRUE FACT!

Agreed, but if you look at the stats over the last 3 years, there is a noticeable downward trend year to year, even with some months going up.

Quote:
Originally posted by moss
He also has the Most ever on welfare & food stamps than any other president...TRUE FACT!

I don't doubt that. The food stamp program was created in 1939 in an attempt to help people during the Great Depression. Since then the population of the US has increased by 181 million people, and has seen the worse economy since the great depression. Food stamp numbers mean nothing if the population continues to increase.
#4732352
Lvl 28
Quote:
Originally posted by Kanzen

...

In China he has created jobs. But his main source of income from Bain Capital was buying up companies and firing everyone and selling off the remainder of assets.

...

You mean the Salt Lake Organizing Committee's budget for the Olympics? Oh he did that easily, by getting the $1.5 BILLION DOLLAR funding from the Government.

...

Which part are you referring to? The SL Olympics or Massachusetts? Where he left them with $2.6 Billion in debt. Job rate at 47th out of the fifty states? Or the fact that Massachusetts was losing jobs at twice the national average?

...

Except slow the insane free fall we were in after Bush started two unfunded wars, gave tax cuts, cut regulation on the Banking system, and gave companies incentives to move jobs overseas.

...

Except you know...

...

Oh shi-- maybe you should stop consuming your "news" from Fox and actually look outside of the bubble.

...

Guess who drove it broke, or are you going to say that the two wars and tax cuts are perfectly fine. The only reason he are at $16 Trillion now is because Bush left us with a $10 Trillion Debt and a collapsing banking system that he himself had a part in taking out regulations and safe guards. How dare we now try to help people stay alive. Fuck them, right?

...

That has to be the dumbest fucking thing I've heard today. What we really can't take is all this money of the 1% controlling our fucking media and consuming the god damn fucking government. But maybe that is the only way people will learn when Romney cuts out all help for those who aren't rich. Good luck when he guts health care, education, social services, and women's reproductive rights. You know what will happen? A huge income disparity while the rich use the shell of a government to gut the middle and lower class citizens. Poverty, unemployment (outside of non-livable wages, good luck on that $7.50 an hour.), over-population, and diseases.
thank you kanzen..
#4732353
Lvl 28
http://www.sustainabilitank.info/2012/10/romney-still-receives-great-income-from-bain-capital-and-right-now-bain-is-closing-another-us-company-exporting-its-equipment-to-china-sensata-that-was-based-in-freeport-illinois-is-now-guarded-by/
#4732354
Lvl 28
that is a company not far from me.. they had a record high year in profits and are still getting moved to china.
#4732355
Lvl 28
http://www.allthingsdemocrat.com/2012/10/bain-capital-closing-an-american-plant-on-nov-5th-and-thats-the-good-part/ another article on it.this one has a video.
#4732356
Lvl 25
Quote:
Originally posted by moss
Did he almost DOUBLE our debt or not...Yes he did!


Our debt when he took office was $10(.62) Trillion. It is now at $15.67T.

Double means to multiply by two. Ten times two is twenty. You follow me here? Sixteen does not equal twenty.

How about this, from the Congressional Budget Office Data.



Quote:
Originally posted by moss
Did he give our country a bad credit rating that has never been done before with ANY past president until him?...Yes he did!!


Again, wrong. Standard & Poors confirmed that it was "the chorus of default doubters in the GOP that spooked them into downgrading U.S. Credit Rating."

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/after-triggering-downgrade-debt-default-skeptics-try-to-run-from-their-records----but-they-cant.php
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/sp-downgrades-us-aaa-bond-rating-to-aa-outlook-negative.php

Quote:
Originally posted by moss

Unemployment has been over 8% for over 32 months straight under his watch and has gone up again this last month....TRUE FACT!


Number one, the President does not have any direct influence over the economy. Congress does. But don't let reality slip into your mind. Before he took office, we were losing on average 700,000 jobs a month. Why? Because their were tax incentives to ship jobs overseas from Bush. We have had over 24 months of job increases. Now I know you hate math, but maybe you can catch up here.

The US population is: 311,591,917 (according to the U.S. Census Bureau.)
Now let's say jobs are up 150,000.

Now exactly how much of 311M is 150K? Let me make it easier for you. Let's cut off the last three digits.

311,591,917 --> 311,591.
000,150,000 --> 000,150.

Now let's say that you divide the jobs by population to see the percentage difference.

... 150,000 = ... 150
----------- = ------- = ~0.004 (in our favor)
311,591,917 = 311,591

Now are you going to see that kind of increase noted on a scale that only accepts one digit behind the decimal? Why? Because it is slow, but at least it is steady over how we were going from losing 700,000 jobs to gaining 150,000 jobs.

... 700,000 = ... 700
----------- = ------- = ~0.001 (against us)
311,591,917 = 311,591

Now the last time we were on a loss it was 27,000 jobs back in September 2010. Since then we have been on an increase.

http://www.politifact.com/rhode-island/statements/2012/aug/30/david-cicilline/us-rep-david-cicilline-says-united-states-has-been/

Number two, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics have shown that we are down in unemployment, 7.8-9% to be exact. If you stopped watching nothing but Fox News you might actually get some news. Kind of sad when Comedy Central viewers are better informed than a supposed News Channel right?

Quote:
Originally posted by moss

He also has the Most ever on welfare & food stamps than any other president...TRUE FACT!


Number one, the GOP propaganda that you are probably relying on as evidence with the supposed "100 million" is actually 4.4 million on food stamps. If you bothered to read the fine print of the propaganda, they admit that if one person in a household gets any benefit like Medicaid or Veteran's Benefits they conclude that the entire family is in on it. Now what exactly do they qualify as "welfare"?

× Medicare (people over 65 who have limited income because some asswipe took their savings? Or maybe because medical costs have skyrocketed.)
× Medicaid (people who are too poor to be able to afford any health services. Fuck them right? Suckers working on McD's all their lives.)
× Children's Health Insurance Program. (No wait, only fetuses should be guaranteed health. Fuck those born ones, let em defend for themselves.)
× Education funding: Head Start, Boys & Girls Club, etc.)
× Higher Education funding: Pell Grants, Assistance, FASAA. (Nah fuck them, they don't need an education, flipping burgers is good enough.)
× Women, Infants, and Children (nah, instead fuck them. Let them starve to death.)
× Child and Adult Care Food Program. (repeat above but for seniors. Who needs 'em, right?)
× Housing and Community Development. (Fuck it, they should all live in slums with no ability to get out of their.)

Number two, the reason Welfare is up is because people have had their jobs outsourced or eliminated entirely. Meanwhile corporations are raking in the highest profits ever, and CEOs and executives are taking home bonuses because they found a way to weasel someone out of a job. But economic disparity is a hoax to you.

Number three, we have an increasing population. In 2001 there was 285 million people, we are now at 311 million. Since math isn't your strong suit. That is an increase of 26 million people.

Quote:
Originally posted by moss

He has no execution of his good speaches...None! thats why he should be a college teacher all they do is speak and never have to put it to use.


Continually wrong. His campaign made 508 promises.

He kept 38% (193)
He compromised 16% (81)
He broke 17% (86)
He has in the works 20% (101)
He has had stalled 9% (45)

Now let us move that into order of execution and failure.

Executed: Kept, Compromised, In The Works.
Failure: Broke, Stalled.

Quote:
Originally posted by politifact

We’ve reached a final rating for 360 promises, about 71 percent of the total. We'll be updating the rest before the inauguration of the next president on Jan. 21.


Quote:
Originally posted by moss

"Redistribution of wealth" who in the hell gave him permission to get in my pocket more just because I work and earn more money than someone else????


Except he never actually said "redistribution of wealth." He said that everyone should pay their fair share back. But you guys love that knee jerk reaction. It makes you feel so warm and fuzzy to be the ones "wronged." Why should the top 1% of the population only pay a fraction back to the nation and economy that got them where they were? Please tell me exactly why a multimillionaire should only pay 14% taxes when you and the majority of people are paying rates of almost 24-29%.

Quote:
Originally posted by 4chan_on_socialism

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropiate time as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the Local, State, and Federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way back out the door I deposit any mail I may have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the Public School.

After work, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to a house which has not burned down in my absence because of the State and Local building codes and Fire Marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the Local Police Department.

I then log on to the Internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on freerepublic.corm and fox naux forums about how Socialism in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.


Quote:
Originally posted by moss

If you need more money work harder like I do.


Ah yeah, all those people working two shifts a day, eight hours a week to bring back only $30K. Sacrificing all their time. Just so they can barely scrape by on minimum wage.

Quote:
Originally posted by moss

Those facts and millions more are why he has FAILED!!


Except none of those are facts. Those are wild assertions with no actual evidence or grasp of the reality. And on top of that, every assertion you have made is the exact opposite of reality. Thank you for being the perfect manifestation of why have so many problems as we do today.
#4732357
Lvl 25
Quote:
Originally posted by daviszr1

I voted Obama last time. Four years later, I've lost my good-paying job, had to sell my house at a $65,000 loss, and am working as a fast-food restaurant manager (No kidding). All with an engineering PhD. He had his chance and everything has gotten worse.


Look, I am sorry to hear that you lost your job and your home. But seriously, are you saying it is more of the President's fault than the company you worked for? Did you ever go back to see how much profit the company was making pre-firing and post? Because blaming him for you getting canned makes as much sense as me blaming a Senator for tripping and breaking my ankle.
#4732358
Lvl 59
Quote:
Originally posted by snoopy7666

...
IMHO, the United Nations is just about the most f'd up organization on the planet. Most of the members of the UN aren't even real democracies and most of them to not have free and open elections...who are they to observe and (no doubt) critique our elections? They obviously invited themselves, as I doubt even Ozero would have taken that step.


First, while there are legitimate gripes one may have with the UN, it is nowhere near "the most f'd up organization on the planet." Seriously, think about that statement for a while. See if you can't come up with dozens of more loused up organizations, including the US Congress.

Second, any country with free and open elections should welcome observation by third party arbiters. Corrupt regimes are the ones most vocally opposed to NGOs observing their elections. Btw, you might want to familiarize yourself with things like this: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/eighteen-pro-democracy-groups-call-on-presidential-debate-commission-to-make-secret-contract-public-171529781.html The US, while more open than many, is by no means free from corruption. The campaigns of both major candidates have raised over $1,ooo,ooo,ooo each this election season. If that's what it takes to get elected, do you really think the US has an "open" system?


Quote:
Originally posted by SP

I think we are, and I think we do. We're so polite that we allow everyone's opinion...even if it is wrong.


I think that's generally the case, but from what I understand the CHRC doesn't always agree, and has made some questionable decisions with respect to censorship of what would be protected free speech in the US.

But then the US is sliding backward on their free speech protections as well, so it's probably a wash, if Canada doesn't come out ahead.


Quote:
Originally posted by moss

He should be a college teacher since all he does is speak & never gets anything accomplished.


Um, you're aware that a majority of the academic research that goes on in the United States, much of which makes its way into private industry in the form of medical treatments, electronics, manufacturing processes, etc. is done by college professors? They're actually a huge resource for the country. The notion that they "never get anything accomplished" is laughably incorrect. And aside from that it's also pretty trivial to argue that educating people is accoplishing something pretty valuable.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kanzen

Look, I am sorry to hear that you lost your job and your home. But seriously, are you saying it is more of the President's fault than the company you worked for? Did you ever go back to see how much profit the company was making pre-firing and post? Because blaming him for you getting canned makes as much sense as me blaming a Senator for tripping and breaking my ankle.


Eh, it's more complicated than that. The administration had a lot of options during the fall of 2007 when Wall Street was being hoist with its own petard. They chose the most bank-friendly of the options, which likely hampered the recovery, especially for the public. There were any number of policy options they could have pursued which were more friendly to homeowners, small businesses and banks, which were eschewed in favor of the large bank-friendly policies that were ultimately enacted. Obama is also in charge of selecting the chairman of the Federal Reserve which has a mandate to maximize employment.

So, yes, there were lots of things Obama could have done that would likely have put the US economy as a whole on a better trajectory than it is currently on. That being said, of course his former employer is more directly responsible for the layoffs than an administration operating at arms length.


Also, everyone should stop talking about the US credit rating as if it means anything. Sovereign nations which control their own money supply can essentially set their bond interest rates at whatever level they choose, which makes worrying about credit rating downgrades an exercise in futility.

Look to Japan for an example. Their credit rating was first downgraded from AAA in 1998. It has been repeatedly downgraded since, with Moody's putting Japan's credit rating below that of Botswana and Estonia. This is what it's 10 year bond interest rate looks like over that time period:



Credit ratings of sovereign nations which issue their own currency mean next to nothing.
#4732359
Lvl 25
@ Dros: Commie.
#4732360
Lvl 59
Not a commie. An empiricist and halfhearted utilitarian.

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/01/24/income-inequality-is-bad-for-society/

Wilkinson's video presentation there really ought to be required viewing for the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" crowd. It explains with actual data what that crowd often attributes to the moral decline of an increasingly irreligious society.


Not sure how on-topic this post is, but whatever.
#4732361
Lvl 25
@ Dros: Why do you hate Freedom?
#4732362
Quote:
Originally posted by EricLindros


Not sure how on-topic this post is, but whatever.


I think its safe to say we passed crossed that line a long time ago.
#4732363
Quote:
Originally posted by Kanzen

@ Dros: Why do you hate Freedom?

What a stupid thing to say.
#4732364
Saw this posted somewhere else, and had to share it.


"Remember to set your clocks back an hour Sunday morning. If you'd like to set it back 50 years, please vote for Mitt Romney on Tuesday."
#4732365
Lvl 25
Quote:
Originally posted by scrog

...
What a stupid thing to say.


#4732366
So with less than 8 hours until the polls open...our little WBW experiment has Mitt Romney ahead with almost 50% of the popular vote, followed by Barack Obama with 41%, Gary Johnson with (a surprising) 5.5% and the independent candidates with not quite 4%.

I know the election isn't quite this simple, and our polling sample is skewed towards white males, but it will be interesting to see if we're close or way off in our prediction.

Remember to vote!!
#4732367
Lvl 59
I'm going with "way off"
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