Don't ask, don't tell

Quote:

Originally posted by nemisis02

Women and minorities have all been serving in the military prior to WW2, a time when our military strength was the most tested and endured.

The military was segregated by sex and race back then. And there were many, many problems even then. And when segregation ended, things got downright ugly in some places from both sides.

Also I doubt this whole debacle is any more then subterfuge to distract us from other stuff the govt. is doing or failing at. They have made no progress on the economy or a real solution to health care woes.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bangledesh

If anything, it's going to be the stagnant and bigoted thinking of some service members that will retard the military's strength and influence around the world as they refuse to work with the queer folk.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bangledesh

Pay attention, sucka.
I'm not suggesting anything.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you just suggested the potential for internal conflict due to "bigoted" heteros refusing to work with homos. What about homos that refuse to work with "bigoted" heteros? .... or is that just crazy talk?

Quote:

Originally posted by bustMall

And when Great Britain and Canada are prepared to keep the world safe, maybe, and it's a very remote maybe, virtually impossible in fact, I will change my mind.

Typical arrogance. There is roughly 34 million Canadians, and roughly 311 million Americans. Just because you have your head shoved up your ass so far so that you can't see the Canadian soilders dying beside our American cousins doesn't mean they aren't there. We do our part and do it well.

Well, Sugarpie, are you having a bad night that you got to start making it personal, or is that just the way lib's do things? You asked a question, and when I disagree, suddenly I have my head shoved up my ass.

When you get your blinders off, you might notice that I never said they weren't there, and I have all due respect for any that are serving. But if you think the armies of GB and CA are as capable of protecting the peace as the USA military, then it's not I who's eyes are glazed over with shit.

I guess when you're "WEBCREW", you can get away with reading things that aren't there, and flaming other posters for things they didn't say, eh?

You insinuated that other soldiers from around the world aren't doing anything to aid the US on the war on terror, I dont think I mis-read that at all.

As for making it personal...yeah I guess I did, and I appologize for that. Not that it's excuse, but I'd just finished reading some of the comments here and was a little upset. I'm sorry.

I voted yes, and I can't for the life of me figure out how people think that gays shouldn't be allowed in the military. I have a hard time believing it is anything other than blatant homophobia. At least latent homophobia.

Although, I believe that even with the repeal of DADT, the government still has to "certify" that homosexuals can serve in the military, and that there would then be a 60 day period after the certification where it will be okay to openly identify as homosexual. The repeal is certainly a step in the right direction, but it could potentially still be a while, depending on what has to happen to be certified.

Quote:

Originally posted by J-Swiss

No matter what anybody says publicly to be politically correct and save face when you feel you're in danger you want a MAN fighting for you and the manliest man of a man you can find because he's the most likely to be able to protect you.

I have to wonder how many really feminine gay men want to/actually join the military. I know quite a few gay people, and much like my straight friends, there are certainly those that would never join the military and wouldn't cut it even if they wanted to. And there are those that would be able to fit right in, even with the "manliest." Merely assuming that a gay person isn't "manly" enough for the military because he's gay seems to be a very broad overgeneralization

Sugarpie,

Accepted, and thank you. I have many Canadian friends, both professionally and personally. I travel to NE Ontario on a semi-regular basis. I have had military conversations with most of those friends, and not a one would argue that without the US, either the Russians, the Germans, the ChiComm's or a threat that never became known, would have probably taken over long ago. There was no insult intented for the military members of any free nation, nor was it insinuated. None of us would trust an OB-GYN to perform brain surgery. Capabilities are what they are, and I don't think it's wise to mess with the internal harmony of our military. The freedom of far to many nations may depend on it. I hope that clears it up.


As for gays in the military, and here's where anyone is welcome to call me what they want, because I will say make my feelings clear. I don't have any openly gay friends. If they go open, our relationship stops. I love women. I love how they feel. I love how they smell. I love how they act. I cannot comprehend a man being gay, I don't want to comprehend it, I don't want to understand it, and I don't want to be around it. Do I care if my neighbor is gay? Not in the least. But we won't be friends. We won't be enemies either. The simple truth is our contact would be limited to "as needed", and nothing else.

Does that make me a bigot? Personally I don't think so, it just means I have made a choice, as did he. My right, his right. I can also say that I appreciate the rule of law, and the rights of the majority. When the majority of those serving in the military agree that it is a non-issue, then I will agree also. But I don't care what the opinion of the general public is, when it comes to military protocol. I would much rather put the decisions that will dictate the fate of my freedoms in the hands of those that are protecting it, than those that just want to complain about it.

And thanks again. I hope we can just agreeably agree to disagree.

Yes, it does make you a bigot that you would terminiate a friendship based on sexual preference.

No, it is not your choice to prefer women. It is your nature as much as it is the nature of the gay soldier to prefer women. It is not a choice for you any more than anyone else here.

The decision was in the hands of those who choose to protect us. The jury is in and blacks and women and homosexuals are the ones who are protecting it as we speak.

To repeat something that has been mentioned over and over here....these silly arguements are the same ones that were used to block the admission of blacks and women to the forces. Stated with great sincerity and conviction. Stated from their point of view and stated with nothing more than their personal philosophy to deny others the same priviledge of serving their country. And I am sure that there will be no more fuss about the integration of open gays in the military than that of the aforesaid groups, though a few will still take their stand with those whom history has passed by.

You sir, are truly on a small island of mistaken belief.

Service now, and marriage on a state by state basis in the future. We are part of our country.

Quote:

Originally posted by bustMall

Sugarpie,

Accepted, and thank you. I have many Canadian friends, both professionally and personally. I travel to NE Ontario on a semi-regular basis. I have had military conversations with most of those friends, and not a one would argue that without the US, either the Russians, the Germans, the ChiComm's or a threat that never became known, would have probably taken over long ago. There was no insult intented for the military members of any free nation, nor was it insinuated. None of us would trust an OB-GYN to perform brain surgery. Capabilities are what they are, and I don't think it's wise to mess with the internal harmony of our military. The freedom of far to many nations may depend on it. I hope that clears it up.


As for gays in the military, and here's where anyone is welcome to call me what they want, because I will say make my feelings clear. I don't have any openly gay friends. If they go open, our relationship stops. I love women. I love how they feel. I love how they smell. I love how they act. I cannot comprehend a man being gay, I don't want to comprehend it, I don't want to understand it, and I don't want to be around it. Do I care if my neighbor is gay? Not in the least. But we won't be friends. We won't be enemies either. The simple truth is our contact would be limited to "as needed", and nothing else.

Does that make me a bigot? Personally I don't think so, it just means I have made a choice, as did he. My right, his right. I can also say that I appreciate the rule of law, and the rights of the majority. When the majority of those serving in the military agree that it is a non-issue, then I will agree also. But I don't care what the opinion of the general public is, when it comes to military protocol. I would much rather put the decisions that will dictate the fate of my freedoms in the hands of those that are protecting it, than those that just want to complain about it.

And thanks again. I hope we can just agreeably agree to disagree.

Gender/sexuality shouldn't be a big deal. They are there to fight, not to make relationships and fornicate. So I can't really see anything wrong with it.

Well, this has gone on long enough for me to have to say this,

I hated everything to do with this topic!
I joined the service in '75 and met my first friend of the, Uhm, different bend.

We were great friends through basic ! He even wrote a poem for me before I realized!
NEVER ONCE did he hit/wanna on me!
(It was years later that I got the true meaning of that poem)

The point is..... WHY Not ?

Quote:

Originally posted by Notech

Well, this has gone on long enough for me to have to say this,

I hated everything to do with this topic!
I joined the service in '75 and met my first friend of the, Uhm, different bend.

We were great friends through basic ! He even wrote a poem for me before I realized!
NEVER ONCE did he hit/wanna on me!
(It was years later that I got the true meaning of that poem)

The point is..... WHY Not ?

Why not what?

Sometimes I think homosexuals join the military solely for the cock, but I could be wrong.

Quote:

Originally posted by Notech

Well, this has gone on long enough for me to have to say this,

I hated everything to do with this topic!
I joined the service in '75 and met my first friend of the, Uhm, different bend.

We were great friends through basic ! He even wrote a poem for me before I realized!
NEVER ONCE did he hit/wanna on me!
(It was years later that I got the true meaning of that poem)

The point is..... WHY Not ?

I've said it til I'm blue in the face. Just because someone is gay, it does not mean that they wanna have sex with every person of the same sex. For some reason there is this misconception that gays are these sex mad, promiscuous, people that only wanna chase after straight people. Give me a break, it couldn't be further from the truth. Yes, I've been attracted to straight women before, but it's no different than a guy being attracted to a girl that he can't have. If you can't have the person, that's all it is, an attraction...it ends there, and there is no harm done.

Quote:

Originally posted by Notech

I voted Yes.
Since they let women in combat, why not let everyone in ? Women in the line of fire caused me more cause for thought than this issue.

where have I been? when have they allowed women in combat? or is being in combat and being in a combat MOS(job), two separate things?

I think the biggest concern was how the rest of the enlisted men and women would react to serving with someone who was openly homosexual. I work with a lot of ex-soldiers and current Reservists and Ive asked them their opinion and they were pretty ambivalent about it. If the US wasn't involved in several military actions right now I don't think it would have taken so long for this to happen, but it's not really the kind of thing they wanted to dump on the soldiers when they still have to serve together under such stressful conditions.

OMG.....the very conceit of this comment !

Sure. They sign up to look at your little pride.

Something tells me that they don't risk their life for that, but I could be wrong.

Quote:

Originally posted by 2stroke

...
Why not what?

Sometimes I think homosexuals join the military solely for the cock, but I could be wrong.

A female friend of mine has two kills in her F/A-18. Does that qualify ?

Quote:

Originally posted by dyhart

...

where have I been? when have they allowed women in combat? or is being in combat and being in a combat MOS(job), two separate things?

I dont care if they want to serve, but marriage is absolutely out of the question and I think they will just try to use this to say if we can serve why cant we get married, so anything that puts gays closer to marriage, I vote no. Marriage is not even a discussion, it is off the table and can never happen.

I'm not getting into this argument with you again.