Gun Control

This is mainly to the Americans on the site, and I know that this isn't going to be the most popular opinion out there, but I feel it needs to be said. You guys have way too many guns. I'm sitting here watching the news of the unimaginable act of evil that happened in an elementary school in Connecticut today. I'm watching as the news filters in of possibly 20 or more children...aged 5-9 were gunned down by a deranged man. During one of the segments, it was suggested that perhaps this tragedy could have been avoided if teachers or other school official were allowed to carry concealed weapons. I can't describe how loud I yelled at my tv when I heard this absolutely absurd comment. I cannot believe that people honestly think that is a good idea.

So my point of this thread is this: Why are there so many mass shootings in the US? Here in Canada we have very very few...granted...you're going to say that the population is a lot lower, and therefor the odds of having something like this happen are lower...and you're right. So lets look at similarly populated countries. The US is the 3rd most populous country...Indonesia is 4th, and Brazil is 5th. Indonesia has had a few in the past, not very many in recent years, and Brazil has barely made a dent on the list. China and India (#1 and #2 in population) have also seen some cases of mass shootings, but again come nowhere near the number in the US.

So what is it that makes the US different from these other countries? Simple. Guns.

When is the US government going to understand this? When are they going to implement a stronger gun control law? I know...I know...you say that its your constitutional right to bare arms...you know what I say to that? Change the fucking constitution. Enough is enough. Yes, there are responsible gun owners, and yes, the mass percentage of guns will never be used in a crime...but too bad. Just like in a lot of cases...a few bad apples are going to ruin it for everyone. I'm sorry if you're a collector or if you enjoy target shooting...but once again...too bad.

Its true that gun control isn't the only solution, mental healthcare needs to be improved as well...but its a start.


/rant

I just signed up to comment on this post. I agree that what happened today is a horrible thing.

sugarpie said" When are they going to implement a stronger gun control law? I know...I know...you say that its your constitutional right to bare arms...you know what I say to that? Change the fucking constitution. Enough is enough. "

Gun control only makes it harder for Law Biding people to use their rights legally. Their is only so much that can be done with gun control.

If people want to kill, they will do it with or without a gun. Also today in China (I am glad sugarpie said something about China) 33 children were stabbed to death. The problem has nothing to do with guns. Guns are only a tool people use.

Making something illegal doesn't prevent people, especially law-breaking people, to get their hands on it. Drugs have been illegal in the U.S. for years but anybody can get them.

That's it. That's all I'm gonna say on the topic.

I will agree that guns are only a tool, and if people really want to kill someone, they will do it. However, guns make that act easier, and if you limit access to those tools, there will be less of those acts.

And yes, the world did see a 2nd heinous crime today, and it didn't involve a gun, but if you look at the number of gun deaths in the US, the US is among the top in the world. China doesn't even rank in the top 10. The United States ranks #1 in the world in number of firearms per 100 people (88.8) #4 in gun deaths per year (9,146) and #1 in ownership vs number of gun deaths.

So yes ,it is a tool...but its a tool that is too easy to obtain.

Quote:

Originally posted by Davey45

Making something illegal doesn't prevent people, especially law-breaking people, to get their hands on it. Drugs have been illegal in the U.S. for years but anybody can get them.

That's it. That's all I'm gonna say on the topic.

No it doesn't...you're right...but it's a start.

No, you are wrong. To take MY rights away cause of a criminal is a slippery slope. I think giving teachers the training to use tasers. A non leathal weapon to protect the children in their area of control.

Their is no need to disrespect people in their core beliefs. The only way you will take my gun away from me is to pry it from my cold dead body.

no. not the guns. even Moore, in his "doc," demonstrated that Canada also has a lot of guns, on a per capita basis, but they have a different attitude.
it is true that 'guns don't kill people. people kill people.'

All of you guys have the wrong focus.

Forget any stupid arguements against the 2nd amendment and see the problem for what it is, which is guns getting into the wrong hands. The numbers they are tossing about today on the TV are something like 40% of all gun sales here are without a background check, which sounds about right to me. The reform minded people who would like inhibit gun violence should spend their time addressing the irresponsibility of the gun owners, and gun sellers which would be a partial remedy

if you truly believe in personal responsibility then you should be held liable for any violence due to your gun ( lock it up, stupid !) or failure to due the basic background check.

Personally, I like guns (and we always have fun on Ladies Night free admission... to the firing range) but have locks ( or are locked away) on them when they are not in use.

Lastly, while Charlton Heston is best known to gun nuts for his quote on someone having to pry his gun from his cold dead hands, etc., he is lesser known for his public acknowlegement that sales of guns is poorly administered and too many fools are able to buy one. My thoughts exactly.

Not saying I am for or against gun control, as you'll soon see, but here are a few things we should be aware of.....After 9/11, everyone thinks they need a gun to protect themselves from the big, bad terrorists, even though violent crime in the US is at a 50 year low. Same with non-familial kidnappings. Your pwecious wittle snowflakes have never been safer. Get over it, people, Osama Bin Laden really is dead and not hiding in the bushes next to your kid's school waiting to kidnap them, okaaaay? But on the practical side, after Katrina, when people needed to protect themselves and their property from roving mobs with their own firearms, when literally half the NO police force said "fuck it" and turned in their badges (I am not kidding about that, half of them really did that),and all hell broke loose in the lawlessness that followed the disaster, there has since never been less support for gun control in this country in the last forty years. After the shooting at the Batman premiere, the media clearly tried to force the issue, but no one was interested in it so it just sort of died out. Notice that? Another example of the media trying to drive the news, which it shouldn't be doing.

School violence is at the lowest point it's ever been, and that goes back to when they first started keeping statistics on it beginning in the 1920s. All that school security and metal detectors and cameras? Unnecessary-and extremely expensive- window dressing. The school where this shooting occurred actually had that and was considered secure, You needed to be buzzed in. So much for stopping the fucking maniac who did this atrocity. Some underpaid third-party contractor security guard who really couldnt've given a shit less about those kids probably let him in. How often does some stranger come to your door, you look through the peephole to see who it is, then you open the damn door wide for them anyways because it'd be rude not to. I don't open my door for any face I am either not expecting or whom I don't recognize. No exceptions, ever. In fact, all my friends have a distinctive knock they know they have to use when they show up. If anyone knocks in any other way, I won't even get up off the couch to answer it.

let's keep in mind that while we go through this whole gun control thing *again*, while everyone is distracted by that, the politicians are going to be doing what they always do, which is passing all kinds of harmful and unwanted legislation concerning everything else under the sun, without our approval, while people are paying attention to other issues. Like gun control. This issue matters, but let's not forget what they're doing with the right hand while we're watching their left one, shall we?

Quote:

Originally posted by BillK

no. not the guns. even Moore, in his "doc," demonstrated that Canada also has a lot of guns, on a per capita basis, but they have a different attitude.
it is true that 'guns don't kill people. people kill people.'

There are 88.8 guns per 100 people in the US...meaning that almost 9 out of every 10 people own a gun...that is insane!! In Canada that number is 30.8. That is a HUGE difference.

Yes, people kill people, but guns help them do that.

I don't want to take away rights because of a criminal...I just think that it should be much harder to get a gun, and certain guns should never be available for sale to people.

Terrible news from the states.

Here in England we don't have a gun culture and I am relieved. Yes we have gun crime but it is not a regular occurrence.

Happy to keep it like that.

There are 88.8 guns per 100 people in the US...meaning that almost 9 out of every 10 people own a gune

your numbers are way off, 9 out of 10 people dont owen a gun. Most people that owen guns have 2 or more. My friend has two 45's an AR-15, Henrey repeating riffle, pluse 3 other riffels I cant remember.

It does not matter what kind of gun you have, restricting the size and type will do nothing. whats the difference between a .22 and a .605? they both kill.

I have a Ruger 10/22 22 cal. rifle. And RWS Model 54 22. cal.
Both of these rifles are used for sporting. As in Shooting targets.
They both have the ability to kill.
Both rifles get trigger locks put on them when they are out of the gun safe. And not in use.
Yes I do have a case for both rifles .
The ammo is never stored with the rifles when in storage. Only when ready to go practice target shooting.

Quote:

Originally posted by dadgetsrooledon

Most people that owen guns have 2 or more....
It does not matter what kind of gun you have, restricting the size and type will do nothing. whats the difference between a .22 and a .605? they both kill.

True about the first part. The majority of people in the states don't own a gun, but you have a lot of people who own multiple - and more than 2. It skews the numbers.

The difference between guns is amazing, actually. While many different types of guns can kill, there is a great difference amongst them anyway. Some will shoot multiple bullets in rapid succession.... some won't. Some are powerful enough to go through a vehicle from over 100 yards away and still be fatal... and again, others won't.

Just a thought. In Israel, they trained the teachers and administrators to use real weapons against the terrorists that sneak across the border and attacked schools in the 60's and 70's. Since then very few incidents whatsoever. Criminals seek out the weak and defenseless. Not many attacks on Police offices or Swat training facilities. Just saying.

Quote:

Originally posted by dadgetsrooledon

There are 88.8 guns per 100 people in the US...meaning that almost 9 out of every 10 people own a gune

your numbers are way off, 9 out of 10 people dont owen a gun. Most people that owen guns have 2 or more. My friend has two 45's an AR-15, Henrey repeating riffle, pluse 3 other riffels I cant remember.

It does not matter what kind of gun you have, restricting the size and type will do nothing. whats the difference between a .22 and a .605? they both kill.

Yeah...thats not really true. I would argue that most people that own a gun, do not own multiple guns. Sure there will be a percentage that do, but not the majority.

If you make obtaining a gun more difficult, carrying a gun more difficult, obtaining ammo more difficult, and outright banning some types of guns, then eventually there will be fewer guns. While its true that both types of guns in your example can kill people...if there are fewer guns available, there will be less gun crime. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen eventually.

Talisman,

I appreciate your point, but Israeli society is very, very different than ours. America is an inherently violent society. Israeli society is not. Doesn't matter if you are the drug lord of your neighborhood or a naive suburban citizen who is in love with the idea of self defense but don't take responsibility for what happens to or with your gun. Our society constantly reverts to gun violence like no other civilized society. We talk about "the guns that won the west" and revert to a romantic mythology that really doesn't have many parallels. We are quite a crowd here in the US. Plenty of guns but very little responsibility associated with the sale and ownership of them however legal or illegal.

If you go to Israel you will find that their perspective is quite realistic but the threat is always external. There is no mythology around gun ownership there. Here, it is almost always Internal as we saw in the news today. Far more likely that some creep down the street will whack you than an Al Queda ( sp ?) chap. Completely different in Israel, where you carry a gun as part of your national service obligation is complete. And BTW, damn few Israelis are killed by terrorists guns. Your example is obsolete. The bad guys use bombs almost exclusively these days.

On another thought, I hope the owner of the guns used in that school murder today is put on trial for at least second degree manslaughter for his role in that tragedy.

With roughly 23.8 homicides per 100,000 residents,[26] muggings, robberies, kidnappings[27] and gang violence[28] Brazil is one of the most criminalized countries of the world.In 2006 49,145 people were murdered in Brazil, an increase when compared to 2005, when 47,578 people were killed. The year of 2003 still holds the record for total number of murders in Brazil; that year alone 51,043 people were murdered.

The coordinated bomb attacks occurred on in the tourist district of Kuta, Bali. The attack was claimed as the deadliest act of terrorism in the history of Indonesia according to the current police general, killing 202 people, (including 88 Australians, and 38 Indonesian citizens).
Murder rate 8.1 per 100,000

Murder rate United sates 4.1 per 100,000

To be fair Canada 1.6 per 100,000

china 1.0

sorry brazil and indonesia dont sound real safe

Lizzy Borden used an Ax, and got away with it.

how many crimes are prevented because of weapons ---------most of the time police get there after the crime
just like today -----a weapon is an equalizer ----------it gives the victim a chance ------
POLICE GET THERE AFTER THE CRIME !!!!! YOU MUST BE HAVE THE POWER TO PROTECT YOURSELF
without a weapon ,home invasions would maybe be out of control
it would come down to the most physically dominant