Gun Control

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Originally posted by izuzan

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yup and it is just an opinion. doesn't make it any more of a fact than what me and Raothi are saying. why don't you goto a range and try shooting a gun ? you might find you enjoy it.

That is why i own my firearms, a) for hunting and b) because it is enjoyable to be out challenging myself to hit targets.

I've been to Kosovo. I've fired plenty of guns in my days. Sure, it was entertaining for a while but do I need one at home? No.

Even if I decided to pick up gun-tooting as a hobby, I don't see the need to keep them in my home.

over the counter pepper spray is useless. it is less powerful than the pepper spray postal workers carry for dogs. (pepper spray and mace are the same thing) teaser is a 1 maybe 2 person defense. knife unless well trained is a 1 person defense same with a baton.

the firearm is the only great equalizer. as for it equalizing this guy against the kids. know what else would have ? having the teachers trained and carrying. or the principal. one person with a gun could have ended this with only this guys mother being killed.

instead you have people walking towards the gunshots thinking "NO that's not a gunshot" and blam no way to defend themselves.

Quote:

Originally posted by Raothi

I find it laughable that you are completely avoiding the fact that I have a valid reason for carrying, and successfully used it to prevent a bad situation from becoming worse. Guns are not bad, people who would do evil are bad.

Thermonuclear weapons aren't bad, evil people are bad. Sarin nerve gas isn't bad, evil people are bad.

Yes, evil people are bad. You know what else is bad? Tools that allow evil people to kill a lot more people than the otherwise could.

Seriously, the reason guns exist is to kill. That's their sole purpose. That's why they were invented. It stands to reason that if people want to limit unnecessary deaths, one way to go about that would be to limit the availability of a product that is designed to kill things.

Quote:

Originally posted by izuzan

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yup and it is just an opinion. doesn't make it any more of a fact than what me and Raothi are saying. why don't you goto a range and try shooting a gun ? you might find you enjoy it.

That is why i own my firearms, a) for hunting and b) because it is enjoyable to be out challenging myself to hit targets.

I've gone to a range several times, I don't own a gun, but I've gone to a range that lets you rent one. Its a lot of fun, but I could live without it if it meant that tragedies like the one yesterday wouldn't happen.

Quote:

Originally posted by izuzan

the firearm is the only great equalizer. as for it equalizing this guy against the kids. know what else would have ? having the teachers trained and carrying. or the principal. one person with a gun could have ended this with only this guys mother being killed.

And there it is. The argument that in order to prevent killings in schools we need to have armed teachers. Think about that for a moment. YOU WANT SCHOOL TEACHERS TO CARRY WEAPONS IN CLASS. What on earth could possibly go wrong there?

Quote:

Originally posted by Raothi

I find it laughable that you are completely avoiding the fact that I have a valid reason for carrying, and successfully used it to prevent a bad situation from becoming worse. Guns are not bad, people who would do evil are bad.

What valid reason would that be? There's probably thousands of stories of people in the same situation as you've been in who managed to get out of it alive without a gun. Being in that situation once does not validate the need to carry a weapon.

Quote:

Originally posted by izuzan

the firearm is the only great equalizer. as for it equalizing this guy against the kids. know what else would have ? having the teachers trained and carrying. or the principal. one person with a gun could have ended this with only this guys mother being killed.

instead you have people walking towards the gunshots thinking "NO that's not a gunshot" and blam no way to defend themselves.

If he hadn't had a gun, those 6 adults he killed along the way would probably have been able take him down without guns too. Undamaged? Perhaps not but alive? Probably.

Centralized storage is one of the dumbest idea's ever. our tax dollars are already stretched thin enough paying for police to do useless crap let alone have one or 2 sitting behind some bars waiting for people to come and take out their legally owned property. or store them at a club ? that is even worse no club could afford to have armed guards guarding their members firearms. the gun club i belong to has a small building maybe 400 square feet. has over 700 members. i personally own 14 guns that's on the low end. i know a collector that owns over 100. how would they keep them at the club safe from criminals stealing them ? at least storing them where i live they are in a safe, in a locked room with trigger locks on them. and no one around where i live knows i own them. if they store them at a club then all a criminal needs to do is know where gun clubs are. get a bunch of guys and rob them.

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Originally posted by Sugarpie

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I've gone to a range several times, I don't own a gun, but I've gone to a range that lets you rent one. Its a lot of fun, but I could live without it if it meant that tragedies like the one yesterday wouldn't happen.

I sincerely hope that you read my post about mace, tasers and offering my condolences to you.

Quote:

Originally posted by izuzan

over the counter pepper spray is useless. it is less powerful than the pepper spray postal workers carry for dogs. (pepper spray and mace are the same thing) teaser is a 1 maybe 2 person defense. knife unless well trained is a 1 person defense same with a baton.

the firearm is the only great equalizer. as for it equalizing this guy against the kids. know what else would have ? having the teachers trained and carrying. or the principal. one person with a gun could have ended this with only this guys mother being killed.

instead you have people walking towards the gunshots thinking "NO that's not a gunshot" and blam no way to defend themselves.

So you're comparing over the counter pepper spray to an over the counter gun? Lets compare apples to apples. There is stronger pepper spray available. Just as you have a waiting period for gun, there could be a waiting period for pepper spray.

Quote:

Originally posted by izuzan

Centralized storage is one of the dumbest idea's ever.

I can think of one exponentially worse.

Quote:

Originally posted by izuzan

know what else would have ? having the teachers trained and carrying. or the principal.

Quote:

Originally posted by Raothi

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I sincerely hope that you read my post about mace, tasers and offering my condolences to you.

I did...and I have some problems with it, because there is pepper spray available that would have stopped these guys. You maybe can't buy it at 7-11 (like a gun) but its available if you go through proper channels, just as you would with a gun...being a responsible gun owner and all. Yes, the tazer might have only stopped one guy, but maybe that would be enough.

And thank you for your condolences, they were caught, charged, and convicted, and are now free.

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Originally posted by 2112Pooh

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What valid reason would that be? There's probably thousands of stories of people in the same situation as you've been in who managed to get out of it alive without a gun. Being in that situation once does not validate the need to carry a weapon.

My family is alive and unharmed because I carried that day. What part of this is not clear? You can Monday Morning Quarterback all you want, the defense lawyer did and two of them are still serving time. You feel free to be the prey, but those of us who choose to defend ourselves have the right to.

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Originally posted by EricLindros

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And there it is. The argument that in order to prevent killings in schools we need to have armed teachers. Think about that for a moment. YOU WANT SCHOOL TEACHERS TO CARRY WEAPONS IN CLASS. What on earth could possibly go wrong there?

With training ? absolutely nothing. how many cops go ape shit and kill people ? what makes them any different than a school teacher ? hell "brinks" guards are armed they take a half day course and are allowed to carry what could go wrong there ?
with training anyone should be able to. as the saying goes. "if it saves just one life."

how many guns are there in the states ? rough guess ? do you honestly think you can get rid of them all ? get the criminals to give theirs up ? keep them from coming in from Mexico, Brazil other countries ?

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugarpie

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So you're comparing over the counter pepper spray to an over the counter gun? Lets compare apples to apples. There is stronger pepper spray available. Just as you have a waiting period for gun, there could be a waiting period for pepper spray.

get a good gust of wind or a windy night. all the guy has to do is stand up wind. and you have either missed him or lightly got them and doused yourself in pepper spray making their job MUCH MUCH easier.

This thread has gotten ridiculous. Arming school teachers is the most absurd thing I've ever heard.

Quote:

Originally posted by izuzan

Centralized storage is one of the dumbest idea's ever. our tax dollars are already stretched thin enough paying for police to do useless crap let alone have one or 2 sitting behind some bars waiting for people to come and take out their legally owned property. or store them at a club ? that is even worse no club could afford to have armed guards guarding their members firearms. the gun club i belong to has a small building maybe 400 square feet. has over 700 members. i personally own 14 guns that's on the low end. i know a collector that owns over 100. how would they keep them at the club safe from criminals stealing them ? at least storing them where i live they are in a safe, in a locked room with trigger locks on them. and no one around where i live knows i own them. if they store them at a club then all a criminal needs to do is know where gun clubs are. get a bunch of guys and rob them.

Then maybe you should start shooting soft-air guns or paintball-guns instead.

If the hobby is about shooting paper targets, both of those two options serve that purpose just as well. There's no need for a weapon that can kill someone to shoot dummies at a range.

If you're hunting then you don't need 14 guns. You'd need one, two or possibly three guns to cover all your hunting needs.

As for central storage, just leave the working parts in a central storage and you can bring your beloved weapons home. There's absolutely no valid reason for keeping 14 guns in your home let alone hundreds.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugarpie

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I did...and I have some problems with it, because there is pepper spray available that would have stopped these guys. You maybe can't buy it at 7-11 (like a gun) but its available if you go through proper channels, just as you would with a gun...being a responsible gun owner and all. Yes, the tazer might have only stopped one guy, but maybe that would be enough.

And thank you for your condolences, they were caught, charged, and convicted, and are now free.

I am fully aware of pepper spray, and as noted it is laughable. OC spray is what is commonly used by police officers and as I stated, does not have the same effect on everyone. I respect that you do not like firearms, but once more, I was able to defend my family and get the police involved without firing a shot. People do not respect pepper spray or tasers the way they respect firearms because of damage potential. A taser will not likely kill you (yes, I'm aware of recorded cases where it has) and pepper spray definitely will not kill you, so where is the fear for their safety when they try to assault others in a group?

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugarpie

Arming school teachers is the most absurd thing I've ever heard.

Arm the kids?

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugarpie

This thread has gotten ridiculous. Arming school teachers is the most absurd thing I've ever heard.

why is it absurd ? give me some reasons. with the right holster the kids cant touch it. they dont leave it laying around (basic gun safety)

heres an idea. lets make schools into a prison. cant get in without a RFID chip embedded in your arm. classroom doors are barred shut from the inside each room has a washroom for the kids. no recess. lock the whole thing down maybe that will keep the kids safe. easier than trying to confiscate over 200 million legally owned firearms.

Quote:

Originally posted by izuzan

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get a good gust of wind or a windy night. all the guy has to do is stand up wind. and you have either missed him or lightly got them and doused yourself in pepper spray making their job MUCH MUCH easier.

Its not like a can of hairspray.

[youtube]Fo-zr7vARD8[/youtube]

You have an argument for everything, yet still have to be able to counter the fact that if no guns were available, then there wouldn't be gun crimes.