Gun Control

maybe the original idea for guns, but the ones i own have never been used by the military and never will be as they are designed for civilian use, IE no full auto.. no possible way they can be changed to full auto. might be semi, but we are restricted to 5 rounds in the mag.

as for Full auto's in the states, do you even know what it takes to own one ? you have to live in a state that allows it, you have to pay about $1000 more a year ol your taxes to get the "tax stamp" to be allowed to own one. you have to find one that was made before the "assault weapon ban" and you will likely pay more than most small cars to buy one. a pre ban M16 can cost upwards of 20grand. im betting you dollars to doughnuts that any legally purchased and owned full auto will never take a life.

Quote:

Originally posted by Raothi

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This is all I need to know that you are absolutely clueless. My wife was 7 months pregnant at the time of the assault, and four individuals forced themselves into our car while blocking us in. Yep, I see plenty of options for defending my family there. Kindly remove your head from your rear.

Look...I'm sorry that you had to go through that...it would have been terrifying, and I can't imagine having to go through it.

However, can I ask some questions?

Did they have guns?
Did you have your car doors locked
Why couldn't you just ram their car out of the way?

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugarpie

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Look...I'm sorry that you had to go through would have been terrifying, and I can't imagine having to go through it.

However, can I ask some questions?

Did they have guns?
Did you have your car doors locked
Why couldn't you just ram their car out of the way?

as others have brought up whats easier ? if firearms are easier to kill with they are also easier to defend yourself with, most times all it takes is seeing the firearm for someone to back off.

it equalizes a 120lb woman with a 220lb attacker.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugarpie

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Look...I'm sorry that you had to go through would have been terrifying, and I can't imagine having to go through it.

However, can I ask some questions?

Did they have guns?
Did you have your car doors locked
Why couldn't you just ram their car out of the way?

No, they did not have guns. One had a knife, but I hadn't found that out until one of the officers informed me. As for driving off, there was no chance. I was assisting my wife into the car when they surrounded us, and I reacted because I feared for my life, my wife's life and our unborn sons life... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that they had bad intentions while preventing me from closing my wife's door and blocking me from leaving... but justifying my ordeal through the internet is not going to further any cause here. I thank God that I was carrying that day. My two year old is a blessing, and I never want to think about what could have happened if I hadn't.been carrying that night.

I champion the right for self defense because I have seen the evil's of society. Others who have not had their life put in danger can not know the lengths of what you would go through to protect those you love.

Quote:

Originally posted by izuzan

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it equalizes a 120lb woman with a 220lb attacker.

It equalizes a 20 year old kid with 27 people.

Quote:

Originally posted by izuzan

Are you going to put the same restrictions on cars ? lets say no one is allowed to own a sports-car. or a car with over 50 horsepower unless it is required for work. cars wont be able to go over 100km an hour. no motorcycles cant cave people wiping out and hurting themselves and they are of course deathtraps according to many doctors. every vehicle must have a black box that records your entire journey with gps to make sure that you didnt speed anywhere on your commute. and the car wont start unless you are videoed using a breathalyzer.

To be honest, yes, I'm all for controlling cars. As a matter of fact, there are laws requiring all buses (only a few older ones are exempt) to have breathalyzers and several countries are moving towards mandatory breathalyzers in all vehicles. France, as teh first country in the world, instated a law about mandatory breathalyzers in all cars this year.

Quote:

Originally posted by izuzan

How far do we go blaming a tool for the actions of a person. last time i checked a gun cant shoot someone of its own will. at least the 14 in my safe haven't in the 32 years i have had them.... it takes the will of a human to hold aim and fire that tool to kill someone.

Last I checked, a person couldn't throw a 4-gram metal slug 400 ft/s at someone either.

Quote:

Originally posted by izuzan

stop blaming the tool and start going after the people. don't say "but a gun makes it SO much easier" no it doesn't, the Oklahoma bomber proved that.

Yep, and the 9/11 terrorists did a good job proving that you can kill people without using guns too.

Quote:

Originally posted by Raothi

This is all I need to know that you are absolutely clueless. My wife was 7 months pregnant at the time of the assault, and four individuals forced themselves into our car while blocking us in. Yep, I see plenty of options for defending my family there. Kindly remove your head from your rear.

Yeah, and a gun was the only way to prevent that situation from happening and absolutely the only way to get out of it alive and well. I wonder who's the one with their head up their arse.

Quote:

Originally posted by izuzan

as others have brought up whats easier ? if firearms are easier to kill with they are also easier to defend yourself with, most times all it takes is seeing the firearm for someone to back off.

it equalizes a 120lb woman with a 220lb attacker.

It also equalizes one deranged 20 year old kid with 26 innocent victims.

Quote:

Originally posted by EricLindros

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It equalizes a 20 year old kid with 27 people.

I dunno, I think he could of taken them on without the gun.

http://www.howmanyfiveyearoldscouldyoutakeinafight.com/

Quote:

Originally posted by Raothi

No, they did not have guns. One had a knife, but I hadn't found that out until one of the officers informed me. As for driving off, there was no chance. I was assisting my wife into the car when they surrounded us, and I reacted because I feared for my life, my wife's life and our unborn sons life... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that they had bad intentions while preventing me from closing my wife's door and blocking me from leaving... but justifying my ordeal through the internet is not going to further any cause here. I thank God that I was carrying that day. My two year old is a blessing, and I never want to think about what could have happened if I hadn't.been carrying that night.

I champion the right for self defense because I have seen the evil's of society. Others who have not had their life put in danger can not know the lengths of what you would go through to protect those you love.

I can appreciate your situation to a degree, while my situation only involved me, and not a spouse or a child, I was the victim of a violent rape when I was younger. Would a gun prevented it...maybe...or maybe it could have been used against me, and I wouldn't be here. Would pepper spray or a taser prevented it...maybe again, and it could still be used against me, but it wouldn't kill me.
So I guess I ask...why couldn't have these tools helped you out in your situation?

Quote:

Originally posted by 2112Pooh

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Yeah, and a gun was the only way to prevent that situation from happening and absolutely the only way to get out of it alive and well. I wonder who's the one with their head up their arse.

Obviously the one who saved his family, right? I should have just let them hurt us. I pray you are never in the same situation, despite my growing hatred for your arrogant ass.

Quote:

Originally posted by Raothi

I champion the right for self defense because I have seen the evil's of society. Others who have not had their life put in danger can not know the lengths of what you would go through to protect those you love.

You know not of what you speak.

I've had 4 knives pulled on me on 4 separate occasions. I've never been stabbed and I've never felt the need to carry a gun.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kanzen

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I dunno, I think he could of taken them on without the

Pfffft. I have to sign up for my results. However, I'm confident I could take down at least double digits.

***EDIT - I stand corrected, you don't have to sign up. Apparently I can take down 17 5 year olds.

want to give us your infinite wisdom as to the other ways you can defend yourself and pregnant wife from 6 attackers ? and don't say call the police they take an average of 15 minutes to get there and good luck calling when you are circled.

so come on enlighten us knuckle draggers as to how YOU would defend your family in a case like Raothi's.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugarpie

I can appreciate your situation to a degree, while my situation only involved me, and not a spouse or a child, I was the victim of a violent rape when I was younger. Would a gun prevented it...maybe...or maybe it could have been used against me, and I wouldn't be here. Would pepper spray or a taser prevented it...maybe again, and it could still be used against me, but it wouldn't kill me.
So I guess I ask...why couldn't have these tools helped you out in your situation?

I have trained with both pepper spray and tasers (I have been through the police academy and went into another industry when offered a better paying job). Tasers are single use barbed projectiles and SOME models will allow contact stun after, how would this prevent four individuals from advancing? One, MAYBE two, and now I'm left to dealing with two more. Civilian pepper spray is laughable and will NOT stop an attacker. I had to run through a course while being sprayed with OC spray and it was irritating, but in no way stopped me in my tracks. Furthermore, there are countless documented cases when both of these defense systems have NO effect on their target.

Lastly, my condolences for your personal tragedy. I sincerely hope that you have been able to recouperate to some extent, and that justice was served.

Quote:

Originally posted by Raothi

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Obviously the one who saved his family, right? I should have just let them hurt us. I pray you are never in the same situation, despite my growing hatred for your arrogant ass.

Look, while I appreciate your concern for your family, carrying a gun is not the only way to protect them. Guns are bad and I stand by that opinion.

I couldn't care less whether you hate me or not to be honest, in fact, knowing that someone feels hatred towards me because of some random shit on the internet kind of makes me chuckle.

I really can't tell you because each situation is different. Maybe you give them your money. Maybe you flee. Maybe you make a lot of noise to attract bystanders. Maybe you improvise a weapon. Maybe you talk them out of it. Maybe you were overestimating what they were going to do. Maybe you just get beat the fuck up. There are a million possibilities.

But I don't really care about individual situations.

The main point I've been driving home in this thread is that if you lower the availability of guns fewer people die. End of story. As I've said, if people want to argue that they're okay with ~10,000 people dying annually in the US due to gun deaths because they feel the benefits of guns are worth that, feel free to do so. But make that argument, and don't rely on lies and non-facts, like that the only reason this kid was able to kill those children was because the teachers weren't packing or some such bullshit. More guns = more killing. End of story.

Quote:

Originally posted by izuzan

want to give us your infinite wisdom as to the other ways you can defend yourself and pregnant wife from 6 attackers ? and don't say call the police they take an average of 15 minutes to get there and good luck calling when you are circled.

so come on enlighten us knuckle draggers as to how YOU would defend your family in a case like Raothi's.

Well...it was 4 attackers first of all.

Pepper spray
Mace
Taser
Knife
Batons

Quote:

Originally posted by 2112Pooh

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Look, while I appreciate your concern for your family, carrying a gun is not the only way to protect them. Guns are bad and I stand by that opinion.

I couldn't care less whether you hate me or not to be honest, in fact, knowing that someone feels hatred towards me because of some random shit on the internet kind of makes me chuckle.

yup and it is just an opinion. doesn't make it any more of a fact than what me and Raothi are saying. why don't you goto a range and try shooting a gun ? you might find you enjoy it.

That is why i own my firearms, a) for hunting and b) because it is enjoyable to be out challenging myself to hit targets.

Quote:

Originally posted by 2112Pooh

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Look, while I appreciate your concern for your family, carrying a gun is not the only way to protect them. Guns are bad and I stand by that opinion.

I couldn't care less whether you hate me or not to be honest, in fact, knowing that someone feels hatred towards me because of some random shit on the internet kind of makes me chuckle.

I find it laughable that you are completely avoiding the fact that I have a valid reason for carrying, and successfully used it to prevent a bad situation from becoming worse. Guns are not bad, people who would do evil are bad.

Well, people are dying so you can go shoot at targets. So, there you go. And 20 little kids aren't going to see Christmas and it makes me sick to my stomach.

The problem with America is no empathy. I'm bored with this.

Quote:

Originally posted by izuzan

That is why i own my firearms, a) for hunting and b) because it is enjoyable to be out challenging myself to hit targets.

So, because you don't want to give up your recreations, you think an acceptable downside is the deaths of 10,000 people a year.

Interesting.