If Obama is Elected President...

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Originally posted by 11111111112

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Yes we do spread the wealth already, but we certainly shouldn't make that more drastic. Your point of view is that we tax 40% of the richest people's income, so who cares if we make that 50%? I fucking care.

I never said it was cool, but its the case. and McCain has suggested nothing different. The wealthy pay the majority of the taxes. Its simple a "there you have it".

What honestly do we think is going to change when / if Obama is elected? I debated my neighbor all day yesterday who is worried about a liberal agenda? Is abortion going to somehow become more legal? Is prayer going to be any less frequent in our schools? Any big across the board tax increases need to be approved by congress. Those are 535 who can be voted out of their jobs. I think once the Dems get the legislature and the executive branch, they'll want to keep them for a while. Any changes to gun rights won't survive the supreme court.

I've yet to really hear anything so horrible from Obama that would indicate my life -- MY LIFE -- is going to be drastically different, certainly not worse, 2 years from now. By the same token, McCains buy up all of the mortgages plan was pants on his head retarded and I've heard no other ideas from the man.

And I'm glad you enjoyed my people in the jeep.

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Originally posted by mrdorkbutt

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What honestly do we think is going to change when / if Obama is elected? I debated my neighbor all day yesterday who is worried about a liberal agenda? Is abortion going to somehow become more legal? Is prayer going to be any less frequent in our schools? Any big across the board tax increases need to be approved by congress. Those are 535 who can be voted out of their jobs. I think once the Dems get the legislature and the executive branch, they'll want to keep them for a while. Any changes to gun rights won't survive the supreme court.

I've yet to really hear anything so horrible from Obama that would indicate my life -- MY LIFE -- is going to be drastically different, certainly not worse, 2 years from now.

I disagree. The last 2 years of Democrats in control of Congress has shown that they will use their power to hammer through whatever they want. John Kerry (among others) is already talking about a New Deal II. Obama is including an increase in minimum wage to $9.50 an hour and a linkage to inflation in his plans which the Democrats will almost certainly pass. That may not effect people in downtown Manhattan, but it will effect the rest of us with increased inflation as companies that pay below that new minimum wage have to increase prices. The health care plans of Obama will cause inflation as companies with 10 or more employees who currently do not provide a health care plan that meets the Obama criteria suddenly have to do so or pay the tax for the government plan. The taxes on small business will cause inflation (Yes, I know 95% of small businesses won't be effected, but 95% of small business employees will.) The card check legislation is certain to pass, meaning more unions employees in the US meaning higher prices.

Inflation will go up rather rapidly under the Obama administration, as will unemployment. If you can't see how that effects you then you aren't thinking very hard about it.

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Originally posted by rocknthefreeworld

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I disagree. The last 2 years of Democrats in control of Congress has shown that they will use their power to hammer through whatever they want. John Kerry (among others) is already talking about a New Deal II. Obama is including an increase in minimum wage to $9.50 an hour and a linkage to inflation in his plans which the Democrats will almost certainly pass. That may not effect people in downtown Manhattan, but it will effect the rest of us with increased inflation as companies that pay below that new minimum wage have to increase prices. The health care plans of Obama will cause inflation as companies with 10 or more employees who currently do not provide a health care plan that meets the Obama criteria suddenly have to do so or pay the tax for the government plan. The taxes on small business will cause inflation (Yes, I know 95% of small businesses won't be effected, but 95% of small business employees will.) The card check legislation is certain to pass, meaning more unions employees in the US meaning higher prices.

Inflation will go up rather rapidly under the Obama administration, as will unemployment. If you can't see how that effects you then you aren't thinking very hard about it.

Most of these things, including the tax increase that he plans to implement, had better be shelved for at least the next year, preferably longer, due to current economic problems. Tax increases in a deteriorating/poorly functioning economy coupled with inflationary policy (which we already have due to the Fed) is a mixture you do not want to see. Those types of moves are why the recession of 1929-30 turned into a decade long "Great Depression".

This is a classic example of how one should be careful what they wish for as they might get it.

Quote:

Originally posted by mrdorkbutt

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What honestly do we think is going to change when / if Obama is elected?

The size of Government, funding for social programs, more entitlements, and terrorist attacks on our soil.

Quote:

Originally posted by mrdorkbutt

I debated my neighbor all day yesterday who is worried about a liberal agenda? Is abortion going to somehow become more legal? Is prayer going to be any less frequent in our schools? Any big across the board tax increases need to be approved by congress. Those are 535 who can be voted out of their jobs. I think once the Dems get the legislature and the executive branch, they'll want to keep them for a while. Any changes to gun rights won't survive the supreme court.

Abortion will not become "more legal" but Obama wants to use tax money to fund it.
Where people may pray could certainly be affected with the new Supreme Court appointees
Democratic leaders have already stated that they intend to increase taxes
If the Democrats get control of all 3 houses, they will certainly loose them in 4 years and likely 2, as has always happened in the past
Again, there will be 2-3 Supreme Court changes in the next 4 years, gun rights are most certainly in jeopardy, and the tax Obama has suggested on ammunition probably wont be subject to judicial review.

I don't understand why people think America cant get worse.

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Originally posted by brownell

I don't understand why people think America cant get worse.

Extreme shortsightedness and lack of a historical perspective, IMO.

It's the same reason lists of all-time top anything are almost always overpopulated with more recent actors/accomplishments.

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Originally posted by EricLindros

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Extreme shortsightedness and lack of a historical perspective, IMO.

It's the same reason lists of all-time top anything are almost always overpopulated with more recent actors/accomplishments.

Well, there is that and public education. Most students are taught that FDR raised the US out of the Depression, when it has been proven that his policies prolonged and deepened it.

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Originally posted by Kanzen

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We get it from the bullshitter himself.

[youtube]uThoBMfcFRc[/youtube]

He said it in his own words.

He didn't say he agreed with 80% of everything G.W. has done in the clip. He said he voted with him 90% of the time, but so has every other republican. Hell, Obama votes with his party even more than that. It's politics. That certainly does not mean he agrees with 80% of everything the president does.

Hell, even the clips you showed were of McCain trying to pull votes from the far right. He is acting like a politician. If you follow politics on a regular basis you know that McCain is probably Bush's worst enemy in the republican party. Not only because McCain regularly calls Bush out but also because Bush fucked him in his original presidential campaign. In the following links you will see McCain refer to Bush's decisions with words like "trainwreck", "terrible", "profligate spender", and that he disagrees with Bush on the economy and how to handle it.

http://www.recordpub.com/news/article/4453850
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN31224120080831
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24296096/
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2895526&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

Quote:

Originally posted by mrdorkbutt

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I never said it was cool, but its the case. and McCain has suggested nothing different. The wealthy pay the majority of the taxes. Its simple a "there you have it".

What honestly do we think is going to change when / if Obama is elected? I debated my neighbor all day yesterday who is worried about a liberal agenda? Is abortion going to somehow become more legal? Is prayer going to be any less frequent in our schools? Any big across the board tax increases need to be approved by congress. Those are 535 who can be voted out of their jobs. I think once the Dems get the legislature and the executive branch, they'll want to keep them for a while. Any changes to gun rights won't survive the supreme court.

I've yet to really hear anything so horrible from Obama that would indicate my life -- MY LIFE -- is going to be drastically different, certainly not worse, 2 years from now. By the same token, McCains buy up all of the mortgages plan was pants on his head retarded and I've heard no other ideas from the man.

And I'm glad you enjoyed my people in the jeep.

Actually McCain is suggesting not increasing taxes on ANYONE during a economic crisis. Obama wants to increase taxes on the people who make the most money and hire people for all of the jobs. So, once again, you're saying that increasing that income tax from 40% to 50% for the top bracket is no big deal to you. Unless of course you got a huge raise tomorrow. Then you would be pissed!

Also, that buying of the mortgage plan, that was originally Hillary Clinton's idea.

It was a bad idea of Hillary's too.

I never would have voted for Hillary.

You guys spread a lot of gloom and doom, but I don't see it coming. I've yet to hear a plan good or bad from McCain. His whole strategy is "that guy is a terrible candidate" yet nothing about why he is a good one.

I see where you are all concerned about inflation, but the steps we've taken to curb inflation are artificial. Look at how we subsidize agriculture for example and keep the costs of fuel down. Food and fuel the rest of the world over costs more and is far more accurately priced than it is here. You worry the costs of goods will go up, but through your tax dollars you already pay for goods than you realize. You just don't see it directly. Goods cost what they cost. We pay less because of government intervention.

And, no I don't think we will have more terrorist attacks under Obama than we would under McCain. I assume Brownell you are a fan of that God awful Patriot Act?

As for the other issues, Abortion doesn't phase me. I don't own or want a gun and I don't think prayer should be worked into the school curriculum. As a matter of fact, I'm going to send another $50 to Obama right now and say its from rocknthefreeworld.

Quote:

Originally posted by mrdorkbutt

It was a bad idea of Hillary's too.

I never would have voted for Hillary.

You guys spread a lot of gloom and doom, but I don't see it coming. I've yet to hear a plan good or bad from McCain. His whole strategy is "that guy is a terrible candidate" yet nothing about why he is a good one.

I see where you are all concerned about inflation, but the steps we've taken to curb inflation are artificial. Look at how we subsidize agriculture for example and keep the costs of fuel down. Food and fuel the rest of the world over costs more and is far more accurately priced than it is here. You worry the costs of goods will go up, but through your tax dollars you already pay for goods than you realize. You just don't see it directly. Goods cost what they cost. We pay less because of government intervention.

And, no I don't think we will have more terrorist attacks under Obama than we would under McCain. I assume Brownell you are a fan of that God awful Patriot Act?

As for the other issues, Abortion doesn't phase me. I don't own or want a gun and I don't think prayer should be worked into the school curriculum. As a matter of fact, I'm going to send another $50 to Obama right now and say its from rocknthefreeworld.

Honestly when a candidate tells me what they're going to do in office to make changes I secretly call them a liar under my breath. Everyone one of them does it and none of them follow through.

Like I said before, McCain has more experience than anyone in the entire world for this job. I trust him to become commander and chief in a time of war because he was on the other side. He was ordered by his president to bomb Hanoi during a war many thought was unjust. He was prepared to bomb Cuba if JFK gave the word. If you're a veteran of the War on Terror, you could find no one running, or even in politics, who could better understand what it's like to be in you shoes than John McCain. Plus I believe he will do more for veterans returning from war than anyone has done since WWII.

He could tell me he is going to fix the economy with one breath of a blonde virgin or he could say he is going to bring the pledge of allegiance back to schools, but I wouldn't believe him. I know politicians don't do what they say they will do; maybe because they're selfish or maybe because they can't. So I pick the guy with experience. I pick the guy I am confident will close the gap to minimal when it comes to "on the job training."

I can counter your statement by saying: How can Obama counter McCain's extensive experience in foreign relations, military and politics? 300 days of playing senator before you start running for the most important position in the world during one of the most important times? Sorry, it doesn't work for me.

Quote:

Originally posted by mrdorkbutt

As a matter of fact, I'm going to send another $50 to Obama right now and say its from rocknthefreeworld.

Go ahead. Maybe they will hunt me down and return it as an illegal contribution.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this. Through all three of these threads the one constant is that no one has changed anyone's mind on anything.

All of us knew what we were going to do this election before this thread was started.

If anything I do agree completely about politicians.

If we should be talking about anything at this point, perhaps we should talk about the process and its problems. Those are real and bi-partisan. For example the need for fair elections that are conducted to the highest standards. The fact that term limits would go a long way to help deal with corruption. What are all of your thoughts on that?

B4

the other day someone was busted for such a plot. it's hella fucked up but i wouldn't be suprised if someone else was plotting as well.

I voted yes,sadly. The republicans have stirred up so much hate, especially Caribou barbie that she should be held responsible for this if, God forbi it happens. Obama has been called the AntiChrist, a terrorist,a marxist, a communist, and now he's cozy with the PLO. McCain was a traitor an a songbird while a POW and Caribou Barbie's husband has avocated seceding Alaska from the Union. The Republicans are a bunch of hypocrites.

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Originally posted by wohali

I voted yes,sadly. The republicans have stirred up so much hate, especially Caribou barbie that she should be held responsible for this if, God forbi it happens. Obama has been called the AntiChrist, a terrorist,a marxist, a communist, and now he's cozy with the PLO. McCain was a traitor an a songbird while a POW and Caribou Barbie's husband has avocated seceding Alaska from the Union. The Republicans are a bunch of hypocrites.

This is idiotic.

Blaming typical campaign rhetoric for any possible future assassination attempt is beyond ridiculous.

The problem with McCain is that he is not responding to what voters want to hear: we want to hear what HE can do for US, not what Obama won't do for us. Americans are simply sick and tired of the negative campaigning. McCain drew first blood with negative campaign ads, resorted to the obnoxious robo-calls that he so fiercely opposed 8 years ago when they were being used AGAINST him, and whined that Obama has spent more money than any other candidate in history on negative campaign ads. Well, EVERYTHING costs more now, and McCain is (shockingly enough) twisting the facts to infer that Obama outspent any other candidate in this area. No kidding, but the amount of money spent on this entire campaign is mroe than has ever been spent on any campaign. McCain is just jealous because Obama HAS been able to raise more money than him. Campaign rhetoric is utter nonsense, and no matter who discounts or discredits the purported facts, the bullshit continues. Obama may not have the best plans for our future, but to think that his party, if they gain the majority in the House, will railroad all of their bills thru the House - wait, isn't that what EVERY majority does?

Oh yeah: and selecting Palin as his running mate was just plain stupid. Kind of like Bush selecting Harriet Myers to be on the Supreme Court. It's one of those: "what in the world was I thinking?" moments.

Quote:

Originally posted by wohali

McCain was a traitor an a songbird while a POW and Caribou Barbie's husband has avocated seceding Alaska from the Union. The Republicans are a bunch of hypocrites.

A traitor and a songbird? Are you fucking joking? The guy was imprisoned and tortured for 5 1/2 fucking years. You wouldn't have lasted 25 minutes. The fucking guy had his hip out of place for so long that it GRINDED a new fucking HIP JOINT. See that limp? He has that because he refused to leave when he was told he could. He stayed for 5 extra fucking years until it was his turn to leave. He was literally tied into a fucking knot and hung off the ground for DAYS.

Any fucking person who makes fun of that, a man enduring torture to obide by the POW code, is a God damn coward. You represent all that is bad in this country.

You know nothing about what it takes to serve this country in uniform.

Quote:

Originally posted by wohali

In America they dont treat soldiers like heros, ask any Vietnam vet

You wrote this???

While Republicans ARE a bunch of hypocrites, the rest of Wohali's post is insane (except for the Caribou Barbie stuff).

Dude, you are way off the mark with the McCain stuff there. I think McCain is a great American and history should remember him as such. He has served this country well.

That said, I'd rather die than vote for him. But he is a great American and Obama is a fine American as well. I think the problem people have with the Republican rallies are the cries of traitor and terrorist and [blacklisted] and everything else. Yes, EVENTUALLY, McCain told them to knock it off, but not until they were stirred up into a frenzy.

And as much as Wohali is completely wrong, Great_Schlep is once again entirely on the mark.

Quote:

Originally posted by mrdorkbutt

While Republicans ARE a bunch of hypocrites, the rest of Wohali's post is insane (except for the Caribou Barbie stuff).

Dude, you are way off the mark with the McCain stuff there. I think McCain is a great American and history should remember him as such. He has served this country well.

That said, I'd rather die than vote for him. But he is a great American and Obama is a fine American as well. I think the problem people have with the Republican rallies are the cries of traitor and terrorist and [blacklisted] and everything else. Yes, EVENTUALLY, McCain told them to knock it off, but not until they were stirred up into a frenzy.

And as much as Wohali is completely wrong, Great_Schlep is once again entirely on the mark.

While I agree people are saying things like that, I certainly don't hold McCain accountable for idiots that attend his rallies. Naturally he isn't going to start calling people supporting him "racists" and "assholes." That's a good way to lose an election.