Abortion

Why does some guy think that he has to write a perpetual book about something that is a women's issue. It is really not a man's issue, it is totally a women's issue, men's involvement is what caused the issue to be such a cluster fuck to begin with.

I wouldn't say that its 100% a woman's issue. There could be cases of couple in committed relationships in which the woman wants to abort and the man doesn't. Now...even in those cases I still don't think the guy has a 50/50 say, but I think his feelings have to be considered.

Quote:

Originally posted by demographer_2

Why does some guy think that he has to write a perpetual book about something that is a women's issue. It is really not a man's issue, it is totally a women's issue, men's involvement is what caused the issue to be such a cluster fuck to begin with.

On one hand, men are being told to be responsible, to be fathers, and to be part of the child-raising process. They're also expected to be loving fathers and good husbands while providing for a family.

Also, while men and women experience different emotions, and perhaps even differing degrees of those emotions in regards to a baby, men do have a strong and instinctual nature to bond with and protect their children.

Yet when the decision is made for the future of that child, men are left out of the process and then commanded (and I literally mean commanded - it's against the law to not pay child support) to be responsible for the decision someone else makes. Parenthood (or termination of parenthood) is something that is incredibly significant in someone's life, and that the man has no input on, while someone else makes the decision that he then has to pay for.

In some cases it is so absurd that under-aged men who are taken advantage of by older women, or men that are raped by women, have later had to turn around and pay child support to their predators.

There are a lot of reasons for men to discuss this issue - and if women honestly wanted men to be better husbands, fathers, providers, lovers or even just generally better members of society... They'd be interested in that conversation too.

Women usually say when we men pass a football through our asshole then we can have an opinion

This jus one of those issues that I am too passionate about so I am jus going to bow out and keep my opinions to myself so that I don't start any arguments.

I think this is one thing you can NOT stop a good many women from doing. Governments stepped in because women were dying to get it done. Unscrupulous "Doctors" were more than willing to help them for the right amount of cash. Women were using other unsafe methods. Banning abortion would be a big of a failure as banning Alcohol was. Funny how many are rabid against something until it involves their family member. They say shoot abortion doctors--until their daughter is impregnated by a rapist or a no job teen. The say they hate homos, until their son or daughter comes out of the closet.

Quote:

Originally posted by demographer_2

Why does some guy think that he has to write a perpetual book about something that is a women's issue. It is really not a man's issue, it is totally a women's issue, men's involvement is what caused the issue to be such a cluster fuck to begin with.

That's an ignorant perspective on any level.
I'm sure it's the mans issue to pay you child support right??
I'm sure if the man is wealthy then all of a sudden it's his issue & you will be after his wallet & lifestyle.....Right???
Funny how you think he should have NO say in it until it's pay day, then it's HIS responsibility and he truly has no legal say.....Hmmm
This is a two part decision as it was to have intercourse. The man should absolutely have a say in what happens with his child, this is a life changing event for both parents...(and child)

There is ZERO connection between abortion and child support; they are 2 completely separate issues.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugarpie

There is ZERO connection between abortion and child support; they are 2 completely and separate issues.

True but he's right in his last sentence : the man is also concerned because it's still his child too, even though he's not carrying him. So I wouldn't say it's a 100% woman issue as stated before.

Quote:

Originally posted by omuh

...
True but he's right in his last sentence : the man is also concerned because it's still his child too, even though he's not carrying him. So I wouldn't say it's a 100% woman issue as stated before.

I never said it was 100% a woman's issue, but at the same time, I don't think its 50/50 either. As I said perviously, about the only situation the man's opinion would mean anything is if they were in a committed relationship and for whatever reason the woman wanted to abort and the man didn't.

Quote:

Originally posted by mrcreep1983

my question is, what rights does the baby have?

Until the baby can stay alive without using the mother's body as a vessel, none. Parasites don't have rights that supersede those of the host organism.

Abortions for some! Miniature American flags for others!

Quote:

Originally posted by EricLindros

...

Until the baby can stay alive without using the mother's body as a vessel, none. Parasites don't have rights that supersede those of the host organism.

So you're saying upon birth the baby has rights?

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugarpie

...

I never said it was 100% a woman's issue, but at the same time, I don't think its 50/50 either. As I said perviously, about the only situation the man's opinion would mean anything is if they were in a committed relationship and for whatever reason the woman wanted to abort and the man didn't.

I agree.

I kind of agree, and I kind of don't (on it being a 50-50 issue).

The reality is that maybe it shouldn't be a 50-50 issue, and that the person that has the burden of carrying the child should have more say. That's certainly possible,

It's also reality that in order for significant progress on this social issue to be made, men have to be part of that solution and their buy-in must also be gained. That, by default, means that it has to be a cooperative effort.

Until men are included in the decision, it is indeed a woman's decision - and thus, a woman's problem.

If we want it to be a societal issue or a parent's issue instead of just a woman's - if we actually want men to show concern and responsibility for this problem, they must also be part of the solution.

Whether men should or shouldn't have as much say in the solution as the woman is one discussion. Whether or not a solution can be had without having the cooperation of the father is another - and probably different - answer.

Quote:

Originally posted by mrcreep1983

I'm not a Republican and I do not belong to any religious group...I don't have any faith at all. I do understand your question about women's rights, but my question is, what rights does the baby have? Don't we all have a right to live. I am a father of two and abortion just doesn't sit well with me, it just seems wrong. I understand their are always two sides

Quote:

Originally posted by EricLindros

...
Until the baby can stay alive without using the mother's body as a vessel, none. Parasites don't have rights that supersede those of the host organism.

First of all I am a Conservative Catholic Republican, but I am not a rabid Conservative Republican. I have split my ballot many times and voted for Democrat, and third party candidates whom I felt could do a better job than their Republican adversaries. I am passionately anti-abortion, if I am ever fortunate enough to conceive a baby in MY WOMB abortion is not an option, nor would my telling anyone that I am carrying a baby in MY WOMB be an obligation. I am sorry and I hate to swim against the current but I don't need a man's influence in my life. If I ever was fortunate enough to become pregnant and have a baby I have three older brothers to help with a masculine influence in a child's life. And I am financially secure all on my own. I know everything bout me goes against conventional theory, and against what society teaches, but so what.

Eric your comment bout a baby being a parasite is beneath you, go home and thank your Mom for not killing you before your birth. You may never say a prayer but I will say some for you. I am not going to say anything that could start a fight, I'll jus end it there.....

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugarpie

There is ZERO connection between abortion and child support; they are 2 completely separate issues.

Your wrong AGAIN.
There is a absolute connection & It's hard to believe you don't see it.
If the abortion happens....No support!
If the abortion doesn't happen then the man pays support.
See how easy that was to connect?
Now my previous point was that if a man is forced to be financially responsible, then he should have an honored part of the decision to abort or not.
This is mainly for the simple reason that it's a lifetime of financial responsibility to have children so the decision should be evenly shared.

I don't want or need any mans support, take your money and send it somewhere else. I can deal with everything on my own......

Quote:

Originally posted by Lia

I don't want or need any mans support, take your money and send it somewhere else. I can deal with everything on my own......

Fair enough, however again, that is your choice.
If at any time you decide that you want it or need it, then he is FORCED to pay it.
That is why it should be his decision as well as yours....

Quote:

Originally posted by moss

...

Fair enough, however again, that is your choice.
If at any time you decide that you want it or need it, then he is FORCED to pay it.
That is why it should be his decision as well as yours....

I would never impose on anyone, if I had gotten myself into a mess I wouldn't want to drag anyone else in. If I ever was fortunate enough to get pregnant I wouldn't ever bother the father with any responsibilities toward the child. He could keep his money and live his life without interference from me.