The Iraqi Quagmire

You can tell that Obama doesn't want to go back into Iraq. The people currently in power don't want to share power with others. The don't others in the decision making process. Then you have Al queda jumping in to try and force their brand of religion on others through violent means.
Why should one more foreigner die for these aholes? Saddam had to be ruthless to keep them from killing him and each other. Of course he went further into the realm of a murderous etc dictator. He didn't deserve to live either but look what has replaced him. People that can't and won't get along with each other. They won't try it even with the threat of Al queda taking over. In fact they will use Al queda to defeat the rival. They are making Iran look good to us. Iran is getting in there to fight Al queda and the Sunnis.
Of course Oil prices are going way back up. Any old excuse will do for them to jack the prices up.
What to do? Nothing? Send troops in? Send troops in with conditions? Iraq made our troops leave their country. Now they want our help. That's bs

We're talking about a region that has been at war in some form or fashion since the beginning of recorded history. Does anyone really think that intervention from ANYONE is going to change that?

Quote:

Originally posted by NightCruiser

You can tell that Obama doesn't want to go back into Iraq. The people currently in power don't want to share power with others. The don't others in the decision making process. Then you have Al queda jumping in to try and force their brand of religion on others through violent means.
Why should one more foreigner die for these aholes? Saddam had to be ruthless to keep them from killing him and each other. Of course he went further into the realm of a murderous etc dictator. He didn't deserve to live either but look what has replaced him. People that can't and won't get along with each other. They won't try it even with the threat of Al queda taking over. In fact they will use Al queda to defeat the rival. They are making Iran look good to us. Iran is getting in there to fight Al queda and the Sunnis.
Of course Oil prices are going way back up. Any old excuse will do for them to jack the prices up.
What to do? Nothing? Send troops in? Send troops in with conditions? Iraq made our troops leave their country. Now they want our help. That's bs

You really shouldn't write about something you don't know about. While your general thought that its a shit-show over there are correct, its much much more complicated than that.

Quote:

Originally posted by NC

The people currently in power don't want to share power with others.

Well...the people currently in power is the coalition backed federal republic of Iraq....although that may change in the coming days. Besides...name a government that does want to share. Do the republicans want to share with the Democrats?

Quote:

Originally posted by NC

Then you have Al queda jumping in to try and force their brand of religion on others through violent means.

This current group attempting to gain control of the country is not al-Queda, its ISIS, and in fact al-Queda has made an effort to distance themselves from ISIS. As for forcing their religion on the population, it really has nothing to do with that. For the most part, everyone is Muslim and practices Islam, just as ISIS does. The take over is just that...they want control of the country and the people. Whether or not they have the goal of attempting to turn the entire country into a Jihad state remains to be seen.

Quote:

Originally posted by NC

Why should one more foreigner die for these aholes?

What a-holes? The Iraqi people? Nice attitude. Thats kinda like saying, meh...fuck the French, they're a-holes, lets just let Hitler take them over.

Quote:

Originally posted by NC

People that can't and won't get along with each other. They won't try it even with the threat of Al queda taking over. In fact they will use Al queda to defeat the rival.

HUH? So you expect the Iraqi people and the group that is trying to take over their county (ISIS) to get along?

Quote:

Originally posted by NC

Iran is getting in there to fight Al queda and the Sunnis.
Of course they are, they don't want to be next on the list of countries that ISIS wants to control.
[reply=NC]Iraq made our troops leave their country. Now they want our help. That's bs

Thats not entirely true and you know it...or at least you should. There has been HUGE pressure from Americans to leave Iraq.

Quote:

Originally posted by meetoo157

We're talking about a region that has been at war in some form or fashion since the beginning of recorded history. Does anyone really think that intervention from ANYONE is going to change that?

I know. Christianity freaking suck ass.

Looks like these Muslim extremist look to take over the world by force. Al queda and Isis are very similar. All that military training on the Iraqis was a wast of time. They have no will to defend their own country. Run from 9 to 10,000 extremist. They want us to die for them. Iraq was going to deny our troops protection from their laws--if I remember correctly. But anyway, it was time for us to leave and let them swim or sink. Looks like they have chose to sink. Thee one last hope is Iran

Quote:

Originally posted by Althalus

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I know. Christianity freaking suck ass.

Yea all that love thy neighbor as thyself stuff really upsets the demons

Quote:

Originally posted by NightCruiser

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Yea all that love thy neighbor as thyself stuff really upsets the demons

I'm thinking he maybe meant the Crusades, amongst other bloodbaths where "Christian" soldiers marched into peaceful Muslim countries and basically slaughtered everyone and anyone, men, women and children alike for not believing in their so called Christian "God".

Quote:

Originally posted by NightCruiser

Looks like these Muslim extremist look to take over the world by force. Al queda and Isis are very similar. All that military training on the Iraqis was a wast of time. They have no will to defend their own country. Run from 9 to 10,000 extremist. They want us to die for them. Iraq was going to deny our troops protection from their laws--if I remember correctly. But anyway, it was time for us to leave and let them swim or sink. Looks like they have chose to sink. Thee one last hope is Iran

Your level of arrogance is appalling.

What a surprise ! lol

Quote:

Originally posted by Neonzero

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I'm thinking he maybe meant the Crusades, amongst other bloodbaths where "Christian" soldiers marched into peaceful Muslim countries and basically slaughtered everyone and anyone, men, women and children alike for not believing in their so called Christian "God".

Wow lets bring up the Stone ages to attack Christians why don't we. I think Christianity has evolved a quite a bit since then. No Christians around me talk about killing their fellow human beings to make them follow our Christian beliefs. Jesus taught love and forgiveness. Jesus was the ultimate peace nic. I think it was disciple Peter who took out his sword and chopped the Roman soldiers ear off. Jesus put the ear back on. The same Roman soldier who was taking Jesus to be crucified. A good many Christians forget or ignore the fact that Jesus is the sole reason Christianity exist. But even these Christians are not warring to force atheist to conform.
But the Muslim extremist worldwide are warring to force people to follow their brand of the Koran. They don't mind dying for their cause. In fact they think they will be rewarded in Heaven for murder. Real Christians know the difference between self defense and murder

Nah, Christians just kill gays and black people. And Jews. And doctors. And scientists. And other people in general.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

Not all Christians kill people, but neither do all followers of Islam. You qualify "real" Christians, but then lump all Islamic individuals together as murderous barbarians.

Quote:

Originally posted by Neonzero

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I'm thinking he maybe meant the Crusades, amongst other bloodbaths where "Christian" soldiers marched into peaceful Muslim countries and basically slaughtered everyone and anyone, men, women and children alike for not believing in their so called Christian "God".

Yes, Crusades and all that was one part of what I was referring too. I also referred to the fact that Christianity goes back further into recorded history than Islam does.

Quote:

Originally posted by NightCruiser

Looks like these Muslim extremist look to take over the world by force.

Thank you for that insight, I was wondering when someone was going to interview the leader(s) of ISIS and find out what they wanted. Who knew their goal were as big as taking over the world, I'm glad you were able to clear that up for us using the facts that you obviously got while talking one on one with the leaders of ISIS.

Quote:

Originally posted by NC

They have no will to defend their own country. Run from 9 to 10,000 extremist.

So you've been there huh? That pretty cool, you must have been very entrenched in Iraqi culture and lifestyle. Yeah, those Iraqi people who one day were under order from Saddam to carry out acts of brutality against their own people, and then the next day were part of a 10 minute old "free" Iraq....with no real clear leadership...they really have no honour. I mean, they should be willing to stand up to the tanks, troop carriers, and weapons that ISIS seized with just their machine gun...what a bunch of cowards.

Quote:

Originally posted by NC

They want us to die for them.

Who is "us"? Americans, Canadian, Brits, Aussies? One of the many nations that were part of the coalition? I must have not gotten the memo asking me to die for them.

Quote:

Originally posted by NC

Iraq was going to deny our troops protection from their laws

Wow really? You mean if they committed crimes like rape, murder, and all those other silly ones, the Iraqi people would want to hold them accountable? The nerve!

Quote:

Originally posted by NC

But anyway, it was time for us to leave and let them swim or sink. Looks like they have chose to sink.

Yeah because Im sure they had a vote on it and said, yeah fuck it...this whole freedom thing is too much work.

Quote:

Originally posted by NightCruiser

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Wow lets bring up the Stone ages to attack Christians why don't we. I think Christianity has evolved a quite a bit since then. No Christians around me talk about killing their fellow human beings to make them follow our Christian beliefs. Jesus taught love and forgiveness. Jesus was the ultimate peace nic. I think it was disciple Peter who took out his sword and chopped the Roman soldiers ear off. Jesus put the ear back on. The same Roman soldier who was taking Jesus to be crucified. A good many Christians forget or ignore the fact that Jesus is the sole reason Christianity exist. But even these Christians are not warring to force atheist to conform.
But the Muslim extremist worldwide are warring to force people to follow their brand of the Koran. They don't mind dying for their cause. In fact they think they will be rewarded in Heaven for murder. Real Christians know the difference between self defense and murder

Erm....you're the one who said "since recorded history", and for your records, the Crusades did not take place in the "stone age" as you so eloquently put it. If you're going to spout off about a subject on which you appear to know nothing then you have to be able to take it as well as give it out..................[sir]!!!


Edited to remove personal insult.
Play nice, kids. -EL

Let's avoid the personal insults.... I'd prefer not to see another forum topic go that route.

I'm pretty sure NightCruiser is just trolling now.
Every time a potentially controversial topic hit de lounge or panel, he creates a thread about it trying to use the dumbest arguments possible...

the problem is the western world is trying to bring their values and way of life to the eastern world which is deeply embedded in religion. There are so many issues and sub-issues on trying to do that it defies logic. I think a high percentage people in that area are willing to accept western values in some way, but from what we see here from the media here, the extremists are never going to be ready. The only real way to combat the extremists is for their own people in that region to fight back, western world intervention just drives another nail into the coffin and makes it worse. I think they need to bring some sort of western world justice system along with cameras in the cities to catch and prosecute those who do unthinkable acts it might be a good start. One day, hopefully in my life the big group of people who just want to live in peace will fight back and say you will kill some of us but we are going to get all of you before you get all of us, and rid themselves of the extremists. I honestly think most just want to be left alone and live in peace, it's a small band of people using fear to curb the rest.. it will end one day

Quote:

Originally posted by carney456

the problem is the western world is trying to bring their values and way of life to the eastern world which is deeply embedded in religion. There are so many issues and sub-issues on trying to do that it defies logic. I think a high percentage people in that area are willing to accept western values in some way, but from what we see here from the media here, the extremists are never going to be ready. The only real way to combat the extremists is for their own people in that region to fight back, western world intervention just drives another nail into the coffin and makes it worse. I think they need to bring some sort of western world justice system along with cameras in the cities to catch and prosecute those who do unthinkable acts it might be a good start. One day, hopefully in my life the big group of people who just want to live in peace will fight back and say you will kill some of us but we are going to get all of you before you get all of us, and rid themselves of the extremists. I honestly think most just want to be left alone and live in peace, it's a small band of people using fear to curb the rest.. it will end one day

A different way to look at it, conflict is just a way of life unfortunately in some Middle Eastern countries. Whether they are fighting amongst themselves, or neighbour countries, invading countries, internal militant groups, self appointed dictators, or people of different religions; it seems like fighting has been going on for centuries. A lot of the fighting is religion based, but not all. Not saying that because they are used to fighting that it makes it alright, just saying that it takes a lot to rattle these folks and make them passionate about patriotism as pretty much every government has screwed them over.

I'm glad the Israelis and I think the same:

http://news.yahoo.com/israel-tells-u-kurdish-independence-foregone-conclusion-134451855.html

The problem is Carney that people should have the right to choose. This ISIS/al queda deal is about controlling other people and their governments. Forming strict/warped interpretations of Islam. There are a good many Christians who want to control others too. Some cities and states still have "Blue Laws" for example. What products you can or cannot buy on Sunday. Like you can't by beer and liquor on Sunday. Used to be that you could not buy clothes ETC on Sunday in many areas of the Southern USA.. That is tame compared to ISIS and Alqueda type controllers. Yea there are extremist Christian groups, but right now the focus should be on who is currently fighting wars in 5 to 10 countries.
The USA has been trying to get the Iraqis to have a more inclusive government like the US has where Democrats and Republicans share power. Sunni and Shiite are so divided it is easy for ISIS to move in.
Yea people in the USA and other countries are Free. Freedom comes with a price. You may thing porn. abortion, TV violence and sex, profanity etc are immoral. But if you let the government cut out all that then what will they go after next? Losing freedoms can be a slippery slope. Freedom should be protected and common sense should rule. Creativity comes from Freedom. Free thinking puts robots on Mars. ETC
There is just no reason for ISIS to be attacking Iraq except they want to control the world. Their version of Islam will rule

Quote:

Originally posted by carney456

the problem is the western world is trying to bring their values and way of life to the eastern world which is deeply embedded in religion. There are so many issues and sub-issues on trying to do that it defies logic. I think a high percentage people in that area are willing to accept western values in some way, but from what we see here from the media here, the extremists are never going to be ready. The only real way to combat the extremists is for their own people in that region to fight back, western world intervention just drives another nail into the coffin and makes it worse. I think they need to bring some sort of western world justice system along with cameras in the cities to catch and prosecute those who do unthinkable acts it might be a good start. One day, hopefully in my life the big group of people who just want to live in peace will fight back and say you will kill some of us but we are going to get all of you before you get all of us, and rid themselves of the extremists. I honestly think most just want to be left alone and live in peace, it's a small band of people using fear to curb the rest.. it will end one day