The Iraqi Quagmire

Even Sugarpies buddy Putin is saying Al queda inspired ISIS is wanting to set up a terrorist State. Use terror to spread extreme ISLAM around the world:
BTW Anti abortionist and the KKK do/did involve a good many people who call themselves Christians. But Christianity didn't create these entities. i don't think the Bible says anything about aborting Babies. Nor does it say you should be a racist.
We have extreme versions of Islam sprouting up all over-- Afghanistan/Taliban/Al queda. Yemen , Sudan, Egypt etc


http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/russian-envoy-sees-prospect-terrorist-state-24327185



Edited to remove copyright infringement.
Stop copying and pasting entire articles.
-EL

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But Christianity didn't create these entities. i don't think the Bible says anything about aborting Babies. Nor does it say you should be a racist.
We have extreme versions of Islam sprouting up all over-- Afghanistan/Taliban/Al queda. Yemen , Sudan, Egypt etc

Nor does the Koran says to kill people or inflict terror, as the Koran and the Bible are quite similar in the principle they try to teach.
Stop trying to use arguments on one group of extremists where the exact same can be applied to another one. That's the point of extremists : this is never a good thing.

You know there also are extremists groups in Germany, France, Sweden, Greece (a big one there) and many more countries too right ? Of course, you forget about them because they aren't extremist islamists. The far right wing (which is borderline racist, anti europe etc.) even scored 25% in the European election here in France. Sure we aren't at war so it's not as unstable than countries like Afghanistan but they sure have some power that we should be worried about too.

omuh, I think the difference between Islam and Christianity is that Islam rewards Martyrdom for an Islamic cause/war. Christianities idea of Martyrdom is preaching/teaching the word of God under the threat of death and/or prosecution. Not fighting some kind of Holy war. The old testament in the Hebrew bible is not what Christianity is based on IMO. No one could go to Heaven but Jews in the Old Testament and not many of them lived up to God standard for admittance.

http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2007/03/04/debunking-the-suicide-for-72-virgins-myth/

"I am sure that 72 physical virgins are a small part of the whole world to be given to someone who has experienced paradise to come back to. Yet the prophet (saaw) has said NOBODY who experiences paradise would want to come back to this world even for everything this world has to offer. If a man was getting 72 physical virgins in heaven, then surely he would get more than that from the world and would be enticed to come back.

On the other hand, martyrdom in war for an Islamic cause is praised extensively as in the above Hadith. The Quran teaches (3:169):

“Do not consider those killed [while engaging] in God’s cause dead. Rather, they live with their Lord, who sustains them!”

That site says that the 72 virgin reward is a myth. That the Koran is against suicide--except during wartime. So you could declare war against anyone and be justified ie Al queda declared war against the USA/infidels and sent a suicide murder mission on 9-11. But suicide bombers in the name of Islam are quite common around the world. This is what makes Islam a dangerous religion IMO. Christianity does not promote warfare much less suicide for any reason. Many times the suicide bombers target are innocents ie market places etc. There were no USA soldiers in the Twin towers. Just working folks going about their daily lives. These bombing are meant to spread fear and terror. You don't get many Islamic leaders that will condemn such attacks. So now we have these types of Muslim believers trying to take over entire countries. The Shiites and Sunnis better learn to work together so they can fend off ISIS before it is too late. The Shiites thought they could dictate to the Sunnis but they were dead wrong IMO

Yes terrorists try to inflict terror. That's where their name comes from...
Just like IRA bombed pubs and public places in Ireland. Guess what ? They weren't muslim.

Maybe you should learn that there is a huge difference between a religion in general and extremists/terrorists using that religion as an excuse.

Why don't Muslim leaders condemn those that use the Muslim religion as an excuse to terrorize people? Very few do

I think that they should protect the border around Iraq....don't let anyone in...don't let anyone out......wait until they kill them selves, and then sell the sand to the beach resorts.

We need to take care of us (AMERICANS) first. Every country should take care of themselves first or foremost! THEN and ONLY THEN should they help their neighbor. We are spending more money and loosing more lives of soldiers overseas, and not worrying about securing our own borders right here! For God's sake, Russia is less than 5 miles from Alaska....and look at all the Mexicans and others coming into this country illegally through the southern borders of the USA....I have NOTHING against foreigners coming into America, but please, come in by the front door, so we know who is here! And if you are a terrorist; then don't get offended when we kill your ass! It's just business!

Personally, I have NOTHING against Muslims.....I know a man and his family that live near me, and I've known them for years; they are 100% truly devoted Muslim....they are the nicest family and the most generous people that I have ever met in my life. They don't push there religion on me, I don't push mine on them, we just respect each other as individuals and respect each others religion! Not all Muslims are Terrorists or bad people....! My Muslim friend gets very disgusted and upset when he hears about these things going on in the name of the Muslim religion...it just isn't what the Muslim religion is all about! It is a CIVIL WAR....let them fight it out amongst themselves!

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Originally posted by NightCruiser

Why don't Muslim leaders condemn those that use the Muslim religion as an excuse to terrorize people? Very few do

They do:

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Muslims across the Midlands will meet at 13:00 today to listen to a speech by a prominent Muslim leader condemning the actions of extremist group ISIS.

source: http://www.itv.com/news/central/2014-06-27/muslims-across-midlands-united-against-isis/

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British Muslims have been urged by one of the UK's most senior Shia clerics not to fly to Iraq to battle militants of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis) currently rampaging through the country.

In a video appeal, Muslims were told on Friday they should not get involved in armed conflict but were asked to give "every assistance" to those fighting against Isis.

The eight-and-a-half-minute video by Fadhil al-Milani, an imam from the Al-Khoei foundation in west London, came after a call during Friday prayers in Iraq by Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, one of Shia Islam's most revered clerics, for citizens to bear arms and sign up for the military.

source: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/15/shia-british-muslims-fight-isis-iraq

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We are gathered here today to protest any form of terrorism which is happening around the globe, especially in Iraq," said Riyaz Khawaja, who is president of the Hussaini Association of Calgary, which represents Shia Muslims.

source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/hundreds-of-calgary-muslims-protest-isis-violence-in-iraq-1.2683589

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We could travel to Iraq to form a human chain to save people from being tortured. We could fetch water and donate blood and do anything to save our shrines. The volunteers are educated young men from different backgrounds. We do not plan to train them in arms. We will go there to fight them bare handed.

source: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/30000-indian-muslims-ready-fight-isis-bare-handed-iraq-1454415

Should I go on?


I think a much better question is why don't Christian religions speak out against the violence and discrimination against regular law abiding and peaceful Muslims?

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Originally posted by Hazmat35

I think that they should protect the border around Iraq....don't let anyone in...don't let anyone out......wait until they kill them selves, and then sell the sand to the beach resorts.

We need to take care of us (AMERICANS) first. Every country should take care of themselves first or foremost! THEN and ONLY THEN should they help their neighbor. We are spending more money and loosing more lives of soldiers overseas, and not worrying about securing our own borders right here!

Wow...I'm glad you weren't in charge when the Union needed help battling the Confederacy in the US civil war.

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Originally posted by Hazma35

For God's sake, Russia is less than 5 miles from Alaska

Not sure what this has to do with defending your borders as it really doesn't matter if a country is 5 miles away or 500 miles. As for Russia...its more like 50 miles not 5.

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Originally posted by Hazma35

Personally, I have NOTHING against Muslims.....I know a man and his family that live near me, and I've known them for years; they are 100% truly devoted Muslim....they are the nicest family and the most generous people that I have ever met in my life. They don't push there religion on me, I don't push mine on them, we just respect each other as individuals and respect each others religion! Not all Muslims are Terrorists or bad people....! My Muslim friend gets very disgusted and upset when he hears about these things going on in the name of the Muslim religion...it just isn't what the Muslim religion is all about! It is a CIVIL WAR....let them fight it out amongst themselves!

The best thing you've said in you post...minus the last little bit. Look, I don't know what the answer is either, but standing by and watching perhaps millions of innocent people die when we had the power to stop it, isn't the right thing to do. I'm not saying that America should be responsible for the entire thing, other countries should be helping too..just like they did in the previous campaigns, but sitting by and doing nothing is wrong.

Sugarpie, I guess they get a bit upset when Muslims fight Muslims. Not so much when he comes to Muslim extremist attack westerners. Why do so many Muslims think it is ok to murder to get what they want? We are not talking small groups here. They can justify anything by calling it a war. That is what the Koran states. They will be rewarded in Heaven for Martyrdom during wartime. Many Muslims want that reward.
Besides the extremist, even the average Muslim oppress women. Women can't even drive an auto in Saudi Arabia. Some women protested that law and drove anyway recently. Some women want to follow the Koran strict doctrine. Others are forced to==correct?

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Originally posted by Neonzero

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I'm thinking he maybe meant the Crusades, amongst other bloodbaths where "Christian" soldiers marched into peaceful Muslim countries and basically slaughtered everyone and anyone, men, women and children alike for not believing in their so called Christian "God".

They were far from peaceful when that occurred, they have been warring internally and with other countries in there region since forever. I agree the crusades were no better than what happened in the USA but the fighting today we read about is part of there entire history.

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Sugarpie, I guess they get a bit upset when Muslims fight Muslims. Not so much when he comes to Muslim extremist attack westerners.

Please stop guessing and educate yourself.
When extremist stuff happens, even here in France, Muslim religious leaders do condemn them.

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Originally posted by NightCruiser

Sugarpie, I guess they get a bit upset when Muslims fight Muslims. Not so much when he comes to Muslim extremist attack westerners. Why do so many Muslims think it is ok to murder to get what they want?

Are you seriously this ignorant?

Anyway back to the Shiite VS Sunnis. We can't make these people get along. As Obama says, the Shiite have to form an inclusive government. The Shiite and Sunnis have to learn to live and work together. Then they can together fight off threats like ISIS. These terrorist hide behind civilians so when we attack them civilians can get killed. We then make more enemies. Iraqis have become too dependent on us. Time for them to work together to solve their own problems

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Originally posted by Sugarpie

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Are you seriously this ignorant?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attack

"A suicide attack is an attack upon a target in which an attacker intends to kill others and/or cause great damage, knowing that he or she will either certainly or most likely die in the process. Between 1981 and 2006, 1200 suicide attacks occurred around the world, constituting 4% of all terrorist attacks but 32% (14,599 people) of all terrorism-related deaths.[1] 90% of these attacks occurred in Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Sri Lanka.[1]"

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Originally posted by NightCruiser

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[Link]

"A suicide attack is an attack upon a target in which an attacker intends to kill others and/or cause great damage, knowing that he or she will either certainly or most likely die in the process. Between 1981 and 2006, 1200 suicide attacks occurred around the world, constituting 4% of all terrorist attacks but 32% (14,599 people) of all terrorism-related deaths.[1] 90% of these attacks occurred in Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Sri Lanka.[1]"

Your point being?

Actually wait...I don't want to hear it. In fact...I already know what you're going to say. You're going to broad brush an entire religion again and say that Muslims like to do suicide attacks and that is their main form of attacks. You'll probably throw in some reference to 9-11 in there while completely forgetting that 99.99999% of Muslins are entirely peaceful, but you like to ignore facts so that won't stop you from saying things like Muslims think its ok to murder to get what they want.

So really...don't bother responding, I did it for you.

So what do you think about the "peaceful" ones control over women Sugarpie? I think that is a form of terror too. Women are treated worse than pets in many of these Muslim countries IMO

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Originally posted by NightCruiser

So what do you think about the "peaceful" ones control over women Sugarpie? I think that is a form of terror too. Women are treated worse than pets in many of these Muslim countries IMO

It has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand...thats what I think about it in this context.

Of course its fucking deplorable, but so is rape, murder, and abuse by the hands of millions of christian men around the planet.

All I care bout is that I don't want my brother called upon to return to Iraq for a fourth tour. Three tours was more than enough.