Mexico Tells Texas Not To Execute one of Their Citizens

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Originally posted by moss

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Some of the comments you are referring to are mine and let me be clear....YES I support the death spenalty for Murderers that are TRULY GUILTY....Yes I Do!!

Yes, we know you do. I wasn't referring to your support of capital punishment, I was referring to the tone you took while expressing your support.

Glee and/or exuberance is not an acceptable response to the death of a human being, sir.

I haven't forgotten about Mr. Tamayo's victim, but nobody has been triumphantly expressing their support for Mr. Tamayo's actions.

In this situation two people have died. I'm saying both deaths are tragic. You're saying only one death is tragic, and the other death is cause for jubilation. I find that a loathsome stance.

It might help if you stopped referring to Mr. Tamayo as "a savage" and instead realized that he was a human being, with family and friends. A deeply flawed human being who has caused pain and suffering, no doubt, but a human being nonetheless.

Quote:

Originally posted by moss

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Okay lets all have a moment of silence for him & put the flags at half mass across the country too.

Its comments like this that really make you a dick. You are just looking to start shit with this comment, rather than discuss the issue. Truth be told...I kinda agree with you on your stance on capital punishment, in that if the accused can be proven guilty without a shadow of a doubt, and the jurisdiction has the death penalty, then I support it. The problem is I don't want to be associated with people who make moronic comments like this one you just made. That...and its almost impossible to prove someone guilty without a shadow of a doubt.

Quote:

Originally posted by EricLindros

I haven't forgotten about Mr. Tamayo's victim, but nobody has been triumphantly expressing their support for Mr. Tamayo's actions.

In this situation two people have died. I'm saying both deaths are tragic. You're saying only one death is tragic, and the other death is cause for jubilation. I find that a loathsome stance.

It might help if you stopped referring to Mr. Tamayo as "a savage" and instead realized that he was a human being, with family and friends. A deeply flawed human being who has caused pain and suffering, no doubt, but a human being nonetheless.

That is just a naive statement. Some people are just plain ole savages. Rotten to the core. No conscience. Their family and friends have nothing to do with my feeling toward the scumbags who do participate in heinous crimes. You can sympathize with their families but law enforcement has to protect the public against these menaces to society. I was watching this reality Cop show awhile back and there was this serial rapist/killer. The young ladies daddy had entered her home looking for her after they couldn't get in touch with her. He saw her head sitting on a table. Just her head. The killer had cut off her head and put it on the table. That was his serial killer/rapist signature. He would cut the ladies up after raping them. This is just one example of the horrors committed somewhere in the US every day by the so called "humans" So you want to put them in prisons where prison guards have to take extreme caution measures with these "humans" so they don't become victims themselves. Most people who get the death penalty are the lowest of the low. No redeeming value. No rehabilitation is possible. They are a danger to others while in prison. Back to this case. What type "human" shoots someone in the back of the head? He didn't give a shit about the officers family. The officer may have had children who lost their daddy. He didn't give a shit about the officers children. I read about this other serial rapist/killer. He would tie women up and then video tape himself raping/murdering them so he could watch it later and JO. Police found a lot of tapes of him doing this. He would keep the women prisoner for a day or more. Imagine how they felt knowing they were doing to die? The killer, a military man never showed any remorse for these ladies. In fact many like him only cry about getting caught. There are hundreds of serial killers active in the US.
Yea it is possible to prove someone guilty by a shadow of a doubt Sugarpie. The above ahole video taped himself murdering, torturing, and raping many women after he broke into their homes. Holding them prisoner. There are many cases where there is no doubt who did the crime(s).
Morons who get off on murdering and raping don't stop getting off on it just because you put them in Prison. They either have to be separated from the general population or they would go after their fellow prisoners. Life in Prison or long prison terms is just no solution. Easy for some to say it is because they don't have to deal with these psychopaths 24/7/365. Glad I don't have to

Quote:

Originally posted by NightCruiser

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That is just a naive statement. Some people are just plain ole savages. Rotten to the core. No conscience. Their family and friends have nothing to do with my feeling toward the scumbags who do participate in heinous crimes. You can sympathize with their families but law enforcement has to protect the public against these menaces to society. I was watching this reality Cop show awhile back and there was this serial rapist/killer. The young ladies daddy had entered her home looking for her after they couldn't get in touch with her. He saw her head sitting on a table. Just her head. The killer had cut off her head and put it on the table. That was his serial killer/rapist signature. He would cut the ladies up after raping them. This is just one example of the horrors committed somewhere in the US every day by the so called "humans" So you want to put them in prisons where prison guards have to take extreme caution measures with these "humans" so they don't become victims themselves. Most people who get the death penalty are the lowest of the low. No redeeming value. No rehabilitation is possible. They are a danger to others while in prison. Back to this case. What type "human" shoots someone in the back of the head? He didn't give a shit about the officers family. The officer may have had children who lost their daddy. He didn't give a shit about the officers children. I read about this other serial rapist/killer. He would tie women up and then video tape himself raping/murdering them so he could watch it later and JO. Police found a lot of tapes of him doing this. He would keep the women prisoner for a day or more. Imagine how they felt knowing they were doing to die? The killer, a military man never showed any remorse for these ladies. In fact many like him only cry about getting caught. There are hundreds of serial killers active in the US.
Yea it is possible to prove someone guilty by a shadow of a doubt Sugarpie. The above ahole video taped himself murdering, torturing, and raping many women after he broke into their homes. Holding them prisoner. There are many cases where there is no doubt who did the crime(s).
Morons who get off on murdering and raping don't stop getting off on it just because you put them in Prison. They either have to be separated from the general population or they would go after their fellow prisoners. Life in Prison or long prison terms is just no solution. Easy for some to say it is because they don't have to deal with these psychopaths 24/7/365. Glad I don't have to

NightCruiser, You are Spot On with this.
Thanks for stepping up & speaking the truth so well.
If you have never been around these type of murderers, you cannot understand or even imagine that it could be so true..... It's scary True!!
You are correct, our prison guards are risking their own just dealing with them on a daily basis. These so called "humans" cut peoples throat for a peanut butter sandwich.
These people we are referring to are savages with no remorse.
WELL SAID!!

Thanks for the compliment Moss! You're doing a good job yourself

A hypothetical thought for those on either side. Let’s take it out of the macro and bring it down to the micro scale where there are no huge governments led by the people that are all powerful and wealthy and can lock people up out of site for years. Essentially that’s all it is anyway we just spread out the cost and hassle in a larger system.
You and your neighbor live in a remote area. Your neighbor’s son rapes and kills your daughter. He confesses he feels compelled and couldn’t help it. Do you deport him by sending him home where his family will keep a close eye on him? Do you build an addition to your home where he can be confined and take care of him for the rest of his natural life at your expense? Or do you kill him? By the way, you have to do it personally.
What would you do?

"Truth"... I'm pro capitol punishment but the amount of stupid coming from moss and NightCruiser just makes me sick. Go revel in death and murder on a murder board please.

Quote:

Originally posted by B0b11

A hypothetical thought for those on either side. Let’s take it out of the macro and bring it down to the micro scale where there are no huge governments led by the people that are all powerful and wealthy and can lock people up out of site for years. Essentially that’s all it is anyway we just spread out the cost and hassle in a larger system.
You and your neighbor live in a remote area. Your neighbor’s son rapes and kills your daughter. He confesses he feels compelled and couldn’t help it. Do you deport him by sending him home where his family will keep a close eye on him? Do you build an addition to your home where he can be confined and take care of him for the rest of his natural life at your expense? Or do you kill him? By the way, you have to do it personally.
What would you do?

That's exactly why the judiciary systems exists because the victim is often not the best person to deal with this.
Of course a lot of person would straight up kill the guy or lock him up. But that doesn't mean it's the right decision. You can't take a responsible and well thought decision when so much emotions are engaged. So I don't really see the point of this example.

Quote:

Originally posted by Althalus

"Truth"... I'm pro capitol punishment but the amount of stupid coming from moss and NightCruiser just makes me sick. Go revel in death and murder on a murder board please.

They probably are trolls. That, or they are going full retard.

Quote:

Originally posted by Althalus

"Truth"... I'm pro capitol punishment but the amount of stupid coming from moss and NightCruiser just makes me sick. Go revel in death and murder on a murder board please.

I think we are in the right forum. Capital punishment is a Political football. If a civil discussion of it makes you "sick" Then you are free to go elsewhere in the Forum or stay here and be sick. No one is holding a gun to your head making you read the threads. We are reveling in Justice for the victims--the legal and fair way

Quote:

Originally posted by NightCruiser

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That is just a naive statement. Some people are just plain ole savages. Rotten to the core. No conscience. Their family and friends have nothing to do with my feeling toward the scumbags who do participate in heinous crimes. You can sympathize with their families but law enforcement has to protect the public against these menaces to society. I was watching this reality Cop show awhile back and there was this serial rapist/killer. The young ladies daddy had entered her home looking for her after they couldn't get in touch with her. He saw her head sitting on a table. Just her head. The killer had cut off her head and put it on the table. That was his serial killer/rapist signature. He would cut the ladies up after raping them. This is just one example of the horrors committed somewhere in the US every day by the so called "humans" So you want to put them in prisons where prison guards have to take extreme caution measures with these "humans" so they don't become victims themselves. Most people who get the death penalty are the lowest of the low. No redeeming value. No rehabilitation is possible. They are a danger to others while in prison. Back to this case. What type "human" shoots someone in the back of the head? He didn't give a shit about the officers family. The officer may have had children who lost their daddy. He didn't give a shit about the officers children. I read about this other serial rapist/killer. He would tie women up and then video tape himself raping/murdering them so he could watch it later and JO. Police found a lot of tapes of him doing this. He would keep the women prisoner for a day or more. Imagine how they felt knowing they were doing to die? The killer, a military man never showed any remorse for these ladies. In fact many like him only cry about getting caught. There are hundreds of serial killers active in the US.
Yea it is possible to prove someone guilty by a shadow of a doubt Sugarpie. The above ahole video taped himself murdering, torturing, and raping many women after he broke into their homes. Holding them prisoner. There are many cases where there is no doubt who did the crime(s).
Morons who get off on murdering and raping don't stop getting off on it just because you put them in Prison. They either have to be separated from the general population or they would go after their fellow prisoners. Life in Prison or long prison terms is just no solution. Easy for some to say it is because they don't have to deal with these psychopaths 24/7/365. Glad I don't have to

I've said several times already that I'm pro death penalty in theory, but that the system is too flawed to endorse it. You give an example where the killer videotaped himself doing the crime, but you and I haven't seen the tape...its pretty hard to film both yourself and someone else at the same time...never mind while trying to kill someone at the same time. Maybe he set the camera down somewhere...who knows for sure...my point being, its not like there was a film crew there to capture every detail in flawless lighting and closeups of the killers face. He may very well have done it, and probably did, but almost no evidence is 100% cut and dry. The fact remains that hundreds of people have been wrongfully executed, and mistakes are still being made today

Lastly, your comment about EL being naive, I just don't understand, it makes no sense to me at all. You go on and on about the victims family and what a loss it is, and how tragic it is, and I agree, but it is also a loss for Mr. Tamayo's family. Despite him being a murderer, he still had a family that loved him....yes HE HIMSELF was a pretty shitty human being, but his family is as innocent as the victims family...saying otherwise is in fact Naive.

It seems to me that justice is usually confused with revenge...that they are two sides of the same coin seems to be what we are debating here. Frankly I am all in for life time incarcerations w/no possibility of parole until that practical point ( which is being adopted more and more by states who find that end of life incarceration is not in the best interests of the public and the costs of taking care of a 3rd stage cancer inmate are better born by the private sector...sounds good to me ) because double murder is merely unwashed revenge. Revenge is a waste of everyone's time in my book. That it is best served cold is half way there and by a miserable life in prison is ok with me.

The imperfection of the judicial system rings a personal bell with me, where we had a father's girl friend murder his son in front of 50 witnesses ( at a dance) and the woman got off for lack of evidence. Oh yeah, he was the county sheriff. Our justice systems is anything but fair, balanced or equitable. Murder of a murderer is just a modern day circus maximus.

Just my two cents.

Here is the sicko Sugarpie. He just got life in prison:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/canadian-sicko-russell-williams-life-prison-murder-rape-article-1.190913

"Lloyd had been home when she was attacked by Williams, who broke into her house after watching the woman from his SUV, the Sunday Star reported. He used duct tape to bind her, then took photos and video of his brutal assault which lasted several hours."

Quote:

Originally posted by NightCruiser

Here is the sicko Sugarpie. He just got life in prison:

[Link]

"Lloyd had been home when she was attacked by Williams, who broke into her house after watching the woman from his SUV, the Sunday Star reported. He used duct tape to bind her, then took photos and video of his brutal assault which lasted several hours."

He got life, because we don't have the death penalty in Canada. Also, whether or not the video was proof of his crime, in this case is a moot point, he confessed to the crimes and pleaded guilty. In this case, do I believe he deserves the death penalty? Yes. However, as I stated above, its not an option in Canada. Wanna know the REAL injustice here though, its not that he didn't get the death penalty, its that he still collects his $60,000 a year military pension, and that he's eligible for parole...its not until 2035 or something...but still, at some point before his death, he will be eligible, and will likely be released.

I thought our system was bad. Looks like Canada's is much worse. I saw on 60 minutes? that Canadian prisons are like College dorms. Ya I remember the pension/parole and thought that was insane

Quote:

Originally posted by NightCruiser

I thought our system was bad. Looks like Canada's is much worse. I saw on 60 minutes? that Canadian prisons are like College dorms. Ya I remember the pension/parole and thought that was insane

If you find Canada's system too lenient, let me blow your mind for a minute: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-prison-inmates-treated-like-people (Make sure to take note of how well that prison works in curbing recidivism)

ABORT EXECUTE EVERYONE!
NONE SHALL BE SPARED.

Quote:

Originally posted by moss

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...Truth is a bit uncomfortable for you?? Then you move on & leave this to the adults that can handle it.
It's the Justice that we revel in towards inhumane savages!!
You and many others on here should really try pulling some strings and take a tour of a maximum security prison. Make sure to visit the "High Power" ward....especially you women on here that disagree with us. I promise you guys will leave with tears in your eyes, piss in your pants & feeling like a little candy ass cupcake!!

Yes it's all uncomfortable and shit... the amount of stupid you posses may be contagious. And if you pay for me to go to the US (or any other country) and take a tour of a maximum security prison I'd love to. Can't be worse then seeing your posts on here. And it isn't justice you revel in, it's killing. No matter justified or not, killing somebody is killing somebody. Even if you're a soldier, a victim protecting yourself it's all the same. Just get it into your brain the "facts" you make up doesn't make anything you say true.

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Originally posted by EricLindros

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If you find Canada's system too lenient, let me blow your mind for a minute:[Link] (Make sure to take note of how well that prison works in curbing recidivism)

Thanks for the link Eric that was interesting reading. I didn't know much about Norway's Prison system.
If you ever have been a victim of violence or been robbed what do you focus on? Do you want revenge? Probably so. Do you want the perp severely punished? Probably so. Do you want the perp pampered and trained to not do the it to someone else. You're probably not even focusing on the aspect. You sure don't want the perp pampered. You want the perp punished so they will think twice before doing it to someone else. If you are dead then you never think again of course. You are dead and the perp goes to a nice place and told he is a bad or girl. In the mean time you lost your life due to the perp. Live victims want the punishment to fit the crime. They are not thinking about rehabilitation. Looks like Norway focuses on the perps more than they do the victims.
True, some people do commit one time murders out of rage or while under the influence of alcohol or drugs. You're still responsible for not controlling your temper and for using drugs. You still cut someone life short. Most of these types do not get the death penalty. The death penalty is usually applied when a murder)s) is planned. When the Murderer had time to think before doing the deed(s)
What it comes down to is most victims and their family members want the punishment to fit the crime. Many wouldn't consider government supporting inmates in a comfortable lifestyle as punishment. The victim is scarred for life or dead. The Perp on the other hand is being pampered and trained for a happy life by the government your taxes support.
I do think violent inmates should be separated from Non violent prisoners. I think inmates should be taught a trade where they can get a job when they get out--where applicable. Believe it or not many choose a life of crime instead of working a regular job. I knew this smart guy one time. He had a good job. Brilliant with computers. Just chose robbing peoples houses as a career. Many just don't want a real job for various reasons. A club house prison is not going to change that. I think Prisoners should get counseling, drug rehabilitation and made to get a high school diploma. They should be made to work picking up litter--the non violent ones. Inmates shouldn't have to fear being raped or being assaulted or murdered while in prison. But they shouldn't have any outside of prison type comforts in my opinion
The sociopaths on the other hand just need to be put down. They have killed more than once and they will kill again if given a chance. They enjoy murdering. They should be death penalty candidates. Police officer murderers should be death penalty candidates. Planned murders--just one or more, should be death penalty candidates

Norway has a population of just 5 million people(approx). The USA has a population of around 320 million people. The cost of warehousing all these bad guys and gals(many for life) is astronomical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

Incarceration
Main article: Incarceration in the United States
A map of US states according to number of incarcerated individuals per population of 100,000 in 2008.[35]
As of 2001, the chances of going to prison in percentages for various demographic groups

The United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world (which includes pre-trial detainees and sentenced prisoners).[36] As of 2009, 2.3 million people were incarcerated in the United States, including federal and state prisons and local jails, creating an incarceration rate of 793 persons per 100,000 of national population.[36] During 2011, 1.6 million people were incarcerated under the jurisdiction of federal and state authorities.[37] At the end of 2011, 492 persons per 100,000 U.S. residents were incarcerated in federal and state prisons.[37] Of the 1.6 million state and federal prisoners, nearly 1.4 million people were under state jurisdiction, while 215,000 were under federal jurisdiction.[37] Demographically, nearly 1.5 million prisoners were male, and 115,000 were female, while 581,000 prisoners were black, 516,000 were white, and 350,000 were Hispanic.[37]

Among the 1.35 million sentenced state prisoners in 2011, 725,000 people were incarcerated for violent crimes, 250,000 were incarcerated for property crimes, 237,000 people were incarcerated for drug crimes, and 150,000 were incarcerated for other offenses.[37] Of the 200,000 sentenced federal prisoners in 2011, 95,000 were incarcerated for drug crimes, 69,000 were incarcerated for public order offenses, 15,000 were incarcerated for violent crimes, and 11,000 were incarcerated for property crimes.[37]