London bombings

tube =underground=subway

US media (CNN) is still not clear whether these were suicide attacks or remotely detonated bombs... anyone else heard anything confirmed?

I have to agree with the above post, in regards to what should be discussed.
These men aren't fighting for culture... they're fighting for a God. As for understanding their intentions--they are just that. Kill the infidels. This isn't a war against consumerism or democracy. We have the right to believe whatever we want, and they don't like that. They are not representitive of Islam, they are representitive of a fucked up sect which can and should be judged. People want to ignore our reactions and evaluate their intentions, perhaps in a hope to understand and 'get along." This is impossible with such people. They need to be sent to their 'great reward'.

Everyday, I'm closer to leaving my job and joining the paratroopers.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bank

This isn't a war against consumerism or democracy.

Actually, Bank... It IS a war against democracy... That's my point. A theocracy is not a democracy.

my heart goes out to all of u british people facing these cowards attacks, i was absolutly speechless when i turned on the telly this mornin, and saw what these ********** had done,

these attacks on innocent civilians look a lot like the bombings in madrid and moscow,
in the latter city lives my ex girlfriend jelena, who had luckily overslept and missed her metro by 2 minutes, and heard it explode in the tube,

i tell you, this leaves a mark on even the hardest man, as soon as i heard the news i tried to reach her, knowing the metro she takes and the time she takes it,

can you imagine how i felt when she picked up the phone and said privjet,

i hope that we will find a way to hunt down these cunts, without having to reach the conclusion that "good" people have to suffer due to the crimes of few, just like some ppl went to work back in 35/45,

i sincerely hope these f*ckers are brought to justice, and aren't set free just like our Friggin courts do with asshole terrorists,
but even more so my heart is with those who have perrished and their families, may the lord comfort thee

Quote:

Originally posted by Bank

I have to agree with the above post, in regards to what should be discussed.
These men aren't fighting for culture... they're fighting for a God. As for understanding their intentions--they are just that. Kill the infidels. This isn't a war against consumerism or democracy. We have the right to believe whatever we want, and they don't like that. They are not representitive of Islam, they are representitive of a fucked up sect which can and should be judged. People want to ignore our reactions and evaluate their intentions, perhaps in a hope to understand and 'get along." This is impossible with such people. They need to be sent to their 'great reward'.

Everyday, I'm closer to leaving my job and joining the paratroopers.

While in the long term, paratroopers will be needed, in part, to change the problem, if you really want to make a difference you should consider going into politics or the media, then devouring every piece of information you can find relating to that reigon of the world, their religion, their socio-economic status, their political system, their history and their current mindset, and becoming an outspoken INFORMED individual with an actual understanding of the problem. From there you can actually tackle the real problems of the area that will result in change, and more importantly you will inform people about the truths of the situation and add to the totally outnumbered minority who actually try to think through their problems and solve them with intelligence and information rather than hubris and emotion.


edit: added Bank's quote to help clarify what the hell i was responding to

Well, I've finally made it home from a really long day in central London. The tubes are still out, the overland train stations are running again, and the buses are starting to move. Thousands of people are walking the streets trying to get home and thousands more are booking into hotels for the night.

The mood in London is one of 'well, we expected it to happen sooner or later, and thankfully it's not too bad'.

This is the truth of the situation. Speak to any Londoner and they'll tell you the same. We all feel bad for the poor people who died or are injured, but thankfully the death toll is in the dozens, not the hundreds.

All Londoners who I spoke to say 'cowardly bastards' and 'Muslim extremists' but I feel no animosity towards muslims per se. Those of you not from London cannot imagine what a truly ehtnically diverse place it is and how tolerant it is, and, for a city it's size, how little trouble there is through racial violence. London will easily survive this and we are not afraid.

Quote:

Originally posted by RogueLeader

[reply=Bank]
This isn't a war against consumerism or democracy.

Actually, Bank... It IS a war against democracy... That's my point. A theocracy is not a democracy.
[/reply]
Your correct, when considering that we (and Britian) are democratic countries, and have been under attack. That democracy allows us freedom of religion.
However, they have no desire to convert us to an Islamic theocracy. They wish to kill us. We are deaths for God. Logic does not exist in their thinking... they cannot be credited with that much. They act from emotoins, not for political reasons but for pure enjoyment.

And Creepus, I agree. Courts can't handle this... it's a war.

Quote:

Originally posted by EricLindros

[reply=Bank]
I have to agree with the above post, in regards to what should be discussed.
These men aren't fighting for culture... they're fighting for a God. As for understanding their intentions--they are just that. Kill the infidels. This isn't a war against consumerism or democracy. We have the right to believe whatever we want, and they don't like that. They are not representitive of Islam, they are representitive of a fucked up sect which can and should be judged. People want to ignore our reactions and evaluate their intentions, perhaps in a hope to understand and 'get along." This is impossible with such people. They need to be sent to their 'great reward'.

Everyday, I'm closer to leaving my job and joining the paratroopers.

While in the long term, paratroopers will be needed, in part, to change the problem, if you really want to make a difference you should consider going into politics or the media, then devouring every piece of information you can find relating to that reigon of the world, their religion, their socio-economic status, their political system, their history and their current mindset, and becoming an outspoken INFORMED individual with an actual understanding of the problem. From there you can actually tackle the real problems of the area that will result in change, and more importantly you will inform people about the truths of the situation and add to the totally outnumbered minority who actually try to think through their problems and solve them with intelligence and information rather than hubris and emotion.


edit: added Bank's quote to help clarify what the hell i was responding to
[/reply]
I am in the media... I'm a journalist.
My solution, once again, is send them all to their reward.
These people have been doing this for thousands of years... why are we so arrogant as to think we could change them? We are dealing with people who lack reason, and who are stomping on the rights of others; example is more effective than reason when dealing with such people. In fact, it may be the only effective tactic.

@EricLindros: true, but what if the world is no longer willing to go these extreme lenghts to understand the psyche of our foes, and just wants safety at all costs, would we be able to secure that safety without becomming the "evil" we are trying to eradicate ?

Quote:

Originally posted by Stevezback

All Londoners who I spoke to say 'cowardly bastards' and 'Muslim extremists' but I feel no animosity towards muslims per se.

Well, that's good, sinces all Muslims didn't bomb the city. Just a handful of the fundamentalist, extremeist ones did. Feel animosity toward them.

Quote:

Originally posted by Stevezback

Those of you not from London cannot imagine what a truly ehtnically diverse place it is and how tolerant it is, and, for a city it's size, how little trouble there is through racial violence.

Yes I can. I can imagine a lot of things, and overall, this is one of the easier things to imagine. Especially since I'm in this little place called New York City alot. Kind of diverse there as well.

@ creepus
Yes, we can. It's not an option I find appealing, and it's not something I strive for--simply killing everyone who has wronged us--but, I think this situation is understandable.
We (the Western World) fight for safety and rights--for all people. That is why, if these 'terrorists' are captured, there is a great outcry for whether or not they are being treated fairly. Never would this concern be expressed by them; read about their POW camps.
They do not fight for rights; they literally fight for the extermination of them.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bank

I am in the media... I'm a journalist.
My solution, once again, is send them all to their reward.
These people have been doing this for thousands of years... why are we so arrogant as to think we could change them? We are dealing with people who lack reason, and who are stomping on the rights of others; example is more effective than reason when dealing with such people. In fact, it may be the only effective tactic.

They lack reason? No, i don't think so. I think they have come from a part of the world, an economic, religious and social reality that has indoctrinated them with ideals and goals that we, as westerners tend to disagree with. To brush them off as stupid or unable to think things through is terribly arrogant and unfortunate.

Just an open ended question: How many suicide bombers come from financially/economically prosperous families and neighborhoods?

Quote:

Originally posted by creepus

@EricLindros: true, but what if the world is no longer willing to go these extreme lenghts to understand the psyche of our foes, and just wants safety at all costs, would we be able to secure that safety without becomming the "evil" we are trying to eradicate ?

If the world is not willing to go to the lengths to understand their "enemy" fully then they are doomed to fail, as it would be obvious that they (the world) don't have the desire or the fortitude to match the desire and fortitude of the "enemy". In situations such as these the most committed wins.

To answer your question in a word, no. If we do not address the root cause of the problem, there is no alternative that would allow us to, by force alone, successfully achieve peace.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bank

@ creepus
Yes, we can. It's not an option I find appealing, and it's not something I strive for--simply killing everyone who has wronged us--but, I think this situation is understandable.
We (the Western World) fight for safety and rights--for all people. That is why, if these 'terrorists' are captured, there is a great outcry for whether or not they are being treated fairly. Never would this concern be expressed by them; read about their POW camps.
They do not fight for rights; they literally fight for the extermination of them.

You do understand that this is the kind of thinking that breeds only more discontent with them, and will only serve to further the problem?

In regards to the last question posed... more than you'd imagine. Just think of what family Bin Ladin comes from...

And you're right, their ideals and goals are different from ours. We promote individual rights and freedom of commerce, religion, etc. They do not.
I'm not brushing them off as stupid. They couldn't accomplish this if they were. However, I am passing judgement on that which they consider valuble; I have a hard time feeling sorry for their (fundamentalists) condition when they strive for the continuation of supressing rights.

Quote:

Originally posted by EricLindros

[reply=Bank]
@ creepus
Yes, we can. It's not an option I find appealing, and it's not something I strive for--simply killing everyone who has wronged us--but, I think this situation is understandable.
We (the Western World) fight for safety and rights--for all people. That is why, if these 'terrorists' are captured, there is a great outcry for whether or not they are being treated fairly. Never would this concern be expressed by them; read about their POW camps.
They do not fight for rights; they literally fight for the extermination of them.

You do understand that this is the kind of thinking that breeds only more discontent with them, and will only serve to further the problem?
[/reply]
You are partially correct. But doing nothing would be worse.
What is being debated right now in world politics is similar to the debate which went on between Churchill and Chamberlin durring WWII. Chamberlin wanted understanding and peace; Churchill understood it was impossible. People thought Churchill was insane, and would only furthur Hitler's anger.
With all seriousness, I believe we are on the brink of a similar crisis.
It's not a matter of wanting war. It's an understanding of, in some situations, the need of war.

lets keep it nice in here, im keeping a close eye on you guys

Very nicely worded Bank.

Quote:

Originally posted by FeFeHumHum

lets keep it nice in here, im keeping a close eye on you guys

Understandable... but nothing here is personal.
Until a candian weighs in on the matter, of course....
That was a joke....