Healthcare: A right or privelege

where i come from healthcare is free...except buityfication surgeries...i dont see why it cant be everywhere...when your sick enough to need professional medical help whos got 100.grand eccessable right away not too many...sounds like only the rich can live...im kinda suprised there isnt more (John Q) happenins around the world...good luck in your fight (I mean right)to free healthcare for everyone

Quote:

Originally posted by RugbySam

I find it mildly amusing that people throw up the communist red scare flag as soon as the topic comes up.
We don't seem to mind that we can send our kids to school for free across the nation for 12 or so years where they have access to 2 or 3 meals a day(btw, I worked at a few schools where these meals were all some of the kids would eat for the day). Seems that it would be in our collective best interest to be able to send our kids to the hospital too.

I was on my way to being a doctor and have many friends that are doctors now. Huge school loans (on the order of mortgages) to pay off, HUGE insurance premiums to pay and getting squeezed from both sides when it comes time to collect from patients and insurance companies. The ones that did it for money have to specialize and the ones that did it just to help human beings in need are being suffocated by bureaucracy. I don't envy any of them.

The system is broke. Health care is not a right but we might want to look into making it more accessible to our citizens.

Who touched on communism? We are talking about socialized medicine. We have a number of socialized institutions in this country, it certainly does not make us socialists or "communists" as you mentioned.

Quote:

Originally posted by 4tookerplace

I hate this fucking argument. I can't get health care for my handicapped son because I'm not poor, or rich enough.
Socialize it, if you don't like it, take your fucking gun and hide someplace where nobody gives a shit about anyone else.
I'm so pissed off about this shit, I actually want to start busting heads.

While I am sorry your son is handicapped, I don't think going Joseph Stalin on us is going to fix it.

I understand the shitty situation you have been put in and I agree that it is a huge problem in the system. I just don't think socialized medicine is necessarily the answer.

We have privileges in this country, but with that said; the government should regulate certain aspect of our lives so we can be protected.

So in short we shouldn't even have to pay for basic health care, as we do NOT pay for basic education.

Yes i realize we pay for it through our taxes but you know what i mean

For a Government, its people are its number one resource. It is from its people's work and creativity
that a country gains status in the world.

If the people of a country are not educated, the country cannot prosper. If the people are not healthy
the country cannot prosper.

It is in the best interests of the government to have the people of the country healthy and educated.

A country should provide quality education for its citizens and it should provide quality health care for the
same reason.

Look at those countries where the people are the most prosperous and happiest (it isn't the United States).

There is a website that rates countries by various categories. I invite you to spend an hour looking at
the quality of life, level of health care and education in countries other than the USA and compare them
to the USA. The USA is not the greatest country in the world by any standard.

Those of you who don't think the government should provide health care should visit countries that don't
and see how their people live...er...survive.

Every one of those "ratings" websites I have ever seen uses the level of government funding of things as the yardstick to measure how "good" that thing is in that country. A country where everyone has just a little of a certain thing is rated more highly than a country where everyone has some but some have more than others. Great for measuring socialist societies but terrible for measuring freedom.

I'll cut out all the bullshit and just say yes I think we as tax payers(the government)are responsible for our own health care.

There are ways to make taxpayer(government) funded hospitals more efficient, these are my ideas

2.Make alcohol,tobacco and fat illegal
1.Don't accept alcoholics, obese people and drug addicts, including tobacco smokers. Make it clear that if you wish to do this shit, it's at your own peril.
3.Fixed

I have an idea. All the people who think government should provide healthcare should start a charity. That charity can be tax-free and would be funded by voluntary donations from those who want to provide health care for others. Anyone who wants to use it could use it. And those who didn't could get their own coverage. But in this case no one would be forced to give anything to it if they did not want. Problem solved.

The government can't run anything right, but miraculously they will get health care right. Sure.

Quote:

Originally posted by Wilson2006

...I feel for your situation, but the reality is that even in socialized medicine, those with money will get quicker attention than those without... Waits for appointments will be extremely long and lack of selection of your care providers will be the norm... Is there a solution??? We have some great minds here...What can be done my friends???

in public health care it dont matter how much money you have...if you decide to use it, you will get attention just like everyone else..

Quote:

Originally posted by rocknthefreeworld

Great for measuring socialist societies but terrible for measuring freedom.

i love how you associate non-socialism with freedom.
Chile been one of the only countrys to DEMOCRATICALLY elect a socialist govt to power, then have the US come in and bring them 'freedom' and paying for a dictator to bring in 'freedom' through torture and oppresion is not really freedom..

Im pretty sure also most australians dont think we live with no freedom, simply because we value our public health system, and have chosen so far by whom weve elected into govt
to keep it.

checking some stats here from the http://www.aihw.gov.au/publications/ it showed that for the 2006-2007 year, the median wait time for elective public surgery was 28 days. With only 3% waiting above 12 months. These are for non-emergency surgery only. I havent found yet the stats for emergency operations yet.

Quote:

Originally posted by rocknthefreeworld

Every one of those "ratings" websites I have ever seen uses the level of government funding of things as the yardstick to measure how "good" that thing is in that country. A country where everyone has just a little of a certain thing is rated more highly than a country where everyone has some but some have more than others. Great for measuring socialist societies but terrible for measuring freedom.

I don't think that's the case with this website.
The site I refer to is nationmaster.com

Also, I weigh and compare countries based on my travels.
I have had a passport for many years, both a red and a blue one.

I have been to over one hundred countries and lived in six.

It has been this experience, more than anything, that has
opened my eyes to the limitations of the USA and the bullshit of
its politicians.

Quote:

Originally posted by rocknthefreeworld

I have an idea. All the people who think government should provide healthcare should start a charity. That charity can be tax-free and would be funded by voluntary donations from those who want to provide health care for others. Anyone who wants to use it could use it. And those who didn't could get their own coverage. But in this case no one would be forced to give anything to it if they did not want. Problem solved.

The government can't run anything right, but miraculously they will get health care right. Sure.

It's Ideas like this that will eventually break your economy

When I see the kind of drivel posted here I think
it's no wonder the USA is going down the tubes.
It's no wonder they voted for a stupid corrupt
asshole like Bush. The USA got what it deserves.

Only 3% of the country has a passport. Our "beloved"
president never left the country until after he "took"
office. He had no real record of personal success.
He got everything he has due to his father's connections.

And even after his false war was exposed for just
an armed oil grab, the stupid people of the USA
RE-elected the bastard! Incredible!

There's no quality thinking in the USA and when there is,
it is stifled by the loudmouth idiots on concervative
Talk Show Radio.

So keep the health care "system" you have now and see
where it gets you on the world stage...no where.

The USA, as a great power and leader in the world
is finished. It's had its 200 year reign. China will
take over now. The Roman Empire fell apart and the
USA is doing so now, the stupidity is epidemic.

I'm gonna shut up now and just look at the nudes.
No more from me. It ain't worth it.

Quote:

Originally posted by 11111111112

...

Who touched on communism? We are talking about socialized medicine. We have a number of socialized institutions in this country, it certainly does not make us socialists or "communists" as you mentioned.

Briefly reviewing earlier posts I don't think anyone did claim it to be communist. My point was that I've heard, for many years now, arguments that socialized medical care is somehow un-American, undemocratic or anti-capitalist. The fault in American health care runs deeper than just the billing system. We, myself included, are eating highly processed, less than whole foods for a lifetime and then look to our doctors to pump us full of drugs (which have their own side effects) to make things right. It's a real shame.
What's not a shame at all, however, is public discussion about this and other important topics. Thanks for bringing it up EL.

Quote:

Originally posted by Latino

i love how you associate non-socialism with freedom.

Socialism subjugates the individual to the state. If that isn't anti-freedom I don't know what is.

Quote:

Originally posted by cooper9

...
It's Ideas like this that will eventually break your economy

That idea has nothing to do with the economy. Our economy was doing fine until the government started fixing everything before the Depression. Now we have taken Trillions of dollars every year from the American people only to piss it away on more socialist schemes that are going to make things better only to cost more than originally planned and be wholly ineffective. Welfare has helped individuals but as a country it has made us worse off.

In the end I prefer to rely on myself to do for myself instead of letting government play favorites and buy votes with more schemes. It's time for a revolution again.

Nice one Seryano. I love the US in so many ways but you have hit some good points there. Someone said on another post earlier something about health care OR freedom, indicating you can't have both.

Let me tell you I have American friends scared to send certain things via email as big brother is checking up on you all. That's freedom?

any here posting saying they are in favor or government run health care ever been to the DMV (for those non from here that is the Department of Motor Vehicles, where we register and renew our driver license and vehicle registrations)?

The last time I went in for a 2008 sticker for my license plate I had to stand in a line for 15 minutes to get a form and a number then had to wait 1 hour and 45 minutes to get to see a person at the counter where it took only about 10 minutes to pay for and get my new sticker. all total 2 hours and 10 minutes in a government run facility to get a little sticker and to renew my registration on my vehicle for another year in the computer.

The health care system in Europe may be great but our government wasn't designed and it's equipped to manage that same system here.

Quote:

Originally posted by rocknthefreeworld

That idea has nothing to do with the economy. Our economy was doing fine until the government started fixing everything before the Depression. Now we have taken Trillions of dollars every year from the American people only to piss it away on more socialist schemes that are going to make things better only to cost more than originally planned and be wholly ineffective. Welfare has helped individuals but as a country it has made us worse off.

In the end I prefer to rely on myself to do for myself instead of letting government play favorites and buy votes with more schemes. It's time for a revolution again.

Yeah, it's about time for one of those.

Would you count the billions/trillions of dollars American taxpayers spend on war as health care?

The war has nothing to do with health care either. You want to argue military expenditures, start a thread.

My point is and has been that health care is a personal responsibility. If the government would quit fixing things until they break and just let us keep our own money we wouldn't have a lot of these problems.

Personally, I think the war has a little bit to do with the general health of the public and there are already numerous threads that prove this.

Basically I agree, but what happens when you need a $20.000.00 defibrillator?

Quote:

Originally posted by cooper9

Personally, I think the war has a little bit to do with the general health of the public and there are already numerous threads that prove this.

Basically I agree, but what happens when you need a $20.000.00 defibrillator?

Who needs a $20,000 defibrillator in their home? And where did $20,000 come from? I found plenty of brand new home defibrillators for less than $1,500. And I found many used ones for less than $800. And most are rent able if you can not afford to purchase one outright. And a lot of insurance covers it if the doctor writes a prescription for it as necessary. If your argument is that some people can not afford that, then fine. But pulling a number out of thin air and trying to argue with that number doesn't help your cause.