It's a responsibility and it shouldn't be so expensive. There should be laws set in place so they can't just drop us as they please but the government should have nothing to do with it.
I don't want to wait months to see a good doctor.
i think the gov't should have nothing to do with it.. once they step in then my coverages i pay will skyrocket.. hell don't we already have a gov't based health care system? it's called medicaid.. sooo... obama wants to start a free health coverage for all those too lazy that they don't have the will power to better themselves.. ohh wait that's called wellfare.. damn.. sooo.. i'm still trying to get this straight.. basically they want to take what they have now and change the name of it and tax the shit out of the working class.. hmm sounds like a great plan to me.. double the taxes out of my check to pay for peeps that can't better themselves.. no offense to the elderly and the disabled the original gov't plan was put in place for them.. yeah... maybe i didn't understand the debates that much.. but they cut my pay in half now cause of taxes.. so i really don't want to have it cut in half again
The government should not be involved in the heathcare of private individuals... PERIOD
Oh, and "pre-existing conditions" is fucking bullshit. Every single person in America should have the ability to pay a reasonable rate to any healthcare company they choose. I totally believe this can be done without Karl Marx dipping his balls into healthcare.
Doctors and administrators will have to take paycuts. If they don't like it they can go for the big bucks in Canada... Oh wait... I mean the U.K.... Oh wait. They'll stay, they have nowhere else to go.
Medicaid is not a heath care system, it's a joke. Medicaid is only there for those who are disabled, over 65 or already broke as fuck. Of course if you have to pay for your own medical care, which NO ONE can do out of pocket anymore (which is just fucking ridiculous if you asked me) you will be broke soon and then be able to get on Medicaid. Who they let get Meicaid is incredibly restrictive. I was making $25,000 a year and was paying well over $400 a month to pay for my depression and diabetes meds. I was being crushed by the cost, near having to live on the streets for real. They didn't give a FUCK. They still turned me down. If you have over $2,000 in the bank in most states, you will not qualify. Don't have kids living at home....? That's a major factor in you not qualifying. Own a car less than five years old? You don't qualify because of that alone. You'll also have to bring in your bank statements and pay stubs when you go in to apply, revealing everything about your private finances, which is none of their g-ddamned business to begin with. Don't want to? Then they'll put you in jail for fraud if they find out you're making one more cent than you said you were and IF you even managed to qualify. It's a fucking JOKE. I know all of this from personal experience.
Health care is a fucking HUMAN RIGHT,and lack thereof for millions of Americans is the biggest human rights crisis we've ever faced domestically. It's not about politics, it's about basic human rights to be able to live and get medical care you need even if you can't pay for it or will go broke if you do. But unlike ever other industrialized country on the face of the earth, we've corporatized health care so fat cat millionaire bastards can et rich off your illnesses. People are DYING because we health care isn't free here.
Every time I hear some fucking politicians talking about medicare this or that or what they're going to do to reform insurance agencies, I'm sitting there pulling my hair out going "No no no! You're rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. The answer is to get RID of the insurance agencies, not pander to them even more. That hasn't worked for fifty years who why do you keep trying?. It's failed. Insurance companies are not the answer and they never were. You won't need them once you make it free for everyone!".
Isralies I meet in the Jewish community absolutely cannot even get their minds around having to PAY for health care. Are we so fucking selfish we no longer look after those of our countrymen who are in the worst kind of need? Unless you;re rich, you don't get to live.
Southernboy10 16 years ago
It's interesting to see a debate like this when you live in a country where everyone has free health care and has had since the last war.
Things that strike me are: Comments like "My coverages will sky rocket." So, do we only think about ourselves? Also if you have private health cover don't you pay? Taxes in UK, Spain & much of Europe are surprisingly similar to the US but very few have private health care as it's not necessary. Both Spain & the UK posted health budget surpluses last year too. I'm not saying everything is perfect but is it anywhere?
It is also false economy to let people survive on their own. I've tried getting ad hoc health care in the US & it usually means queuing somewhere like a doc in the box along with all those at the bottom of the income scale who're paying for treatment as they need/can. So, they have minimal care, don't pick up problems before they develop & so have lower life expectancy & poorer productivity for society - oops getting into abstract theories turns off those who like black & white answers I know but unless you want the same old cycle it needs consideration.
In the EU I can have the finest health care available and for nothing. Isn't that something worthwhile? Anybody out there got an insurance policy that covers absolutely everything, no exclusions, no questions asked, you simply get what's needed no matter who you are? It sounds like what every modern civilised society should should have to me.
No matter what they do for universal health care in other countries, it's virtually unanimously b etter than the train wreck we have going on here. Okay so maybe in the UK your 80 year old grandmother won't get a CAT scan after having a stroke, but does anyone that age who already has other health problems at that very advanced age need one? What is it going to tell them....? That she's had a stroke? And maybe your buddy who got into a devastating car wreck that left him a comatose no-brain-function vegetable will be allowed to die instead of laying there until the bed sores kill him in a few years, but wouldn't you want the same if you were him?
If I can't communicate or feed myself with a glass, fork or spoon for more than thirty days, for fuck's sake, let me DIE, will you? If I'm in that bad a shape, I wouldn't want to go on. It's just gruesome the way we keep some people alive way past when anyone would agree we should have let them go.
I think it should be exactly the same way as it's done over in Great Britain. If they can successful make it work then why can't we over here in North America.
[Deleted] 16 years ago
I think that socialized healthcare is great. France is a great example of the success of a social system. They have high taxes but they are covered for healthcare, dental, etc 100%. Broke your finger? Go to the doc and get it in a splint. Got cancer? Go to the doc and get Chemo. I'm not sure if there is a deductible involved to keep the general public honest or not though. Even so if we can put ourselves 10 Trillion in debt paying for the maintenance of nukes and for a war we started for the hell of it then maybe our government should grow a pair and put the taxpayers money to good use. Not to a 700 billion dollar bailout of stupid CEO's who are now living in Cancun sipping Pina Coladas.
Southernboy10 16 years ago
Well I am speaking from split experience as I'm British but at the moment live in Spain, which - a German doctor who works in it told me - has currently the best in the EU, so arguably the best public system in the world, previously a title held by France.
In the UK you can indeed simply go to see the doctor, they are required by law to see you withing 24hours max but in my experience you can either make an appointment for the same day or walk in if it's urgent. Re your melanoma experience I think that would normally have been dealt with pretty swiftly there. In Spain there's no question of the rapidity, it's top class.
Where the system fails in Britain is - ironically - due to the Thatcher (think Reagan) reforms that created an "internal market." The consistent attempts to push it towards privatisation have produced problems, only partly sorted by the current government. Blair had the chance but was too busy making an international name for himself to concentrate on details like that so there are gaps but generally the ability to have anything from world class cancer treatment downwards, for free no matter who you are is hard to beat.
Well, if that's the case, maybe it is not such a bad thing. Of course it has to be done right. If you know anything about our government they do very little correctly. That is indeed why I am a conservative. I don't believe the government should have their sticky palms in my affairs.
That is also why the United States is no longer "UK West." We didn't like a huge central government. Of course these days people like Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton are moving back in that direction.
Who knows, maybe it is the right way to go.
Do the supporters of socialized healthcare have any concerns over the government at some point mandating what you can and cannot eat; lifestyles; recreational activities etc?
I say this because were I running an health insurance company, for example, I would incentivize activity that lessens my monetary exposure. IE. I would offer rebates for persons who meet certain criteria, such as non-smoking, low cholesterol/fat levels, etc. It just makes fiscal sense.
Therefore, when you transition those powers to a body, such as a state government, that has the ability to mandate and/or outlaw specific activities, you encounter the very real possibility of a Big Brother type situation.
Further, as a taxpayer, do you feel you should be obligated to pay for the poor lifestyle choices of other people? The idea of pooled risk is how insurance works, but in the end all treatments must be paid for, and that money must come from somewhere. Further, universal payment options will actually INCREASE the prices of medical procedures, as socializing medical treatment increases the demand for services, which as an elementary economics class will tell you, will increase prices.
Nobody in America is proposing a health care system similar to those in Europe. The Democrats have "backed off" a little and are proposing health care similar to what was implemented in Massachusetts when Mitt Romney was governor. This way, you get universal health care, but it's not government run.
