Score: 3.29 Votes: 21
rate this

get off your butt!! - or here, have a $1

Starter: [Deleted] Posted: 19 years ago Views: 3.9K
  • Goto:
#2601843
Lvl 27
Quote:
Originally posted by hsv

A few years a go Time magazine did an article on twin brothers who had grown up with an alcoholic, abusive shit of a father who beat and raped them regularly.

One brother was a homeless alcoholic drug addict and the other was a highly successful businessman.

When asked why they had turned out like they did, they both had exactly the same answer - "Beacuse of my dad".

One used their childhood as an excuse and the other as a motivator.

So my opinion is that you can say all you want about disease lack of opportunity and stuff, but at the end of the day it really just comes down to have you got the balls to try or are your just a loser


Thats one hell of a way to put it.
People sometimes think its just easier to blame someone else for their own problems than to take responsibility for their own actions.
* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601844
Lvl 7
Quote:
Originally posted by hsv

A few years a go Time magazine did an article on twin brothers who had grown up with an alcoholic, abusive shit of a father who beat and raped them regularly.

One brother was a homeless alcoholic drug addict and the other was a highly successful businessman.

When asked why they had turned out like they did, they both had exactly the same answer - "Beacuse of my dad".

One used their childhood as an excuse and the other as a motivator.

So my opinion is that you can say all you want about disease lack of opportunity and stuff, but at the end of the day it really just comes down to have you got the balls to try or are your just a loser




your opinion is flawed: do you want to maintain a state of mind that is just plain scientifically wrong? Why? What purpose does that serve you? Your Time magazine offer is ONE case. Do you know how scientific studies are framed? Do you know that some IDENTICAL twins become schizephenic and some don't? Some get cancer..some don't. You are stating as fact something that needs to fit into a framework that you have in your mind for less fortunate people. You are so certain that they are weak and bad.. maybe that reasoning is flawed too.
* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601845
Lvl 10
schizephenic

[/reply]

I thought there was an "R" in that word somewhere???
* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601846
Lvl 12
Quote:
Originally posted by Willie_Bobo

a guy wrote earlier that he worked with the homeless and traced a large percentage of the problems to drug and alcohol abuse.... and then goes on to state, refering to the issue of stopping the usage; "they are simply not willing to do that". Unfortunately, because true alcoholism is a disease (accepted by the Amer Med Assoc and Amer Psych Assoc et. al.) it is sort of like asking a diabetic to stop having the disease. A disease, by the way, that cam be arrested and treated (to some degree) by changing diet....which, for many "they are simply not willing to do that". The difference, of course, is that most diabetics don't kill people from drunk driving or beat their wifes etc (although diabetic shock does cause accidents and diabetes is fast becoming a HUGE drain on the insurance system). Most people can have a few drinks and stop which, I believe, contributes to the misunderstanding about the disease of alcoholism. What I don't fully understand is the need to look down on people... especially sick people. vs feel grateful for NOT being sick, lazy, or many of the things stated in this thread.


yes, you are correct, addiction/alcoholism is a disease, and like all diseases it can be treated in one way or another. healing, in the case of an addict, does not begin until a decision is made by the addict to do something about it and seek help. as i stated, there are countless programs to help the homeless deal with their addiction, get off the street and re-establish themselves. if you had compared the mental illness aspect of the homeless, ie - bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, to diabetes i could agree with you. mentally ill people have no control over their mental status and emotions if they are not medicated, much the same way a diabetic who doesn't take their insulin or manage their glucose levels will go into diabetic shock. but addiction? yes, people with addiction can be predisposed to it based on family history and other factors, but that doesn't mean that they HAVE to become an addict and are incpapble of making decisions to booze or get high, as well as making a decision to get help. You also state that diabetes has a huge drain on the insurance system. Again, you are correct. I am a paramedic in a major u.s. city and in a typical shift (17-25 runs in a 24 hour shift) i will see as many homeless people as i do diabetics. I can tell you that our treatment protocal for both are initially similiar, since they both are having an altered mental status. i pick the diabetics up at home, at work, at social destinations, trains, planes, and automobiles, you name it. we check their blood glucose, it's low, we start the i.v., give them glucose, and in seconds they are back to a normal mental status, and are most of the time very pleasant people, even though sometimes when their sugar is low they may initially fight us. sometimes we transport them to a hospital, sometimes we don't. for the homeless person, they are usually sleeping on a sidewalk, an alley, a park, or the gardens and lawns of peoples homes. we check their blood sugar, it's normal, we wake them up, they reek of booze, feces, and urine. they often become violent with us because we woke them up, they try to punch us and scratch us, they spit on us, i know medics who have had homeless people try to stab them with dirty hyperdermic needles. they are drunk, so we have to transport them to a hospital. so you talk about diabetes being a drain on insurance companies, who do you think flips the bill for the homeless persons transport to a hospital, or their stay at the hospital while they sober up? the taxpayer flips the bill. we have some homeless that we pick up like this every single shift. how much do you think that adds up to? anyways, i'm getting off point, which is this, many homeless people have the decision making capacity to seek help and improve their lives, regardless of their addiction. you also implied that i am "looking down" at homeless people and addicts. just because i feel they have the ability to help themselves does not mean i am unsympathetic.
* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601847
Lvl 7
I deal with homeless all the time in my line of work.. The majority of them have mental illnesses and thanks to Reagan, they were thrown on the street from mental facility.. A lot of them prefer to live on the streets and could careless about jobs *After all, you can make 50K a year panhandling*

I feel for them but unless you want to give them handouts or have them live off your taxes, nothing much can be done.

What about the homeless illegal immigrants in the US? Another issue nobody seems to raise
* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601848
Lvl 10
Latino, wtf did u start here....
* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601849
Lvl 12
@festivus...thank-you for answering my question. I can see (and I commend you for the job you do!!) how hard it must be to tend to the extremes of your profession. My point being though: Real drug and alcohol addiction is a fatal disease-- in most cases. The TRUE addicts never can stop. Just as someone with incruable cancer, they can only go downhill. I had intended on going into drug and alcohol counseling at one point, but found it to be to heartbreaking. I'm pretty sure that diabetes is now the number three cause of death in the U.S.. On surface reasoning these people should be able to control this more than the alcy/addict.... but addiction is addiction. Of course much of the data gets dumped into the giant vat of heart disease, lung diseaes and then diabetes. The point being it's hard to say how much of the heart and lung (druggies smoke) disease is related to that addiction. Anyway I appreciate your discussion and keep up your great work




@franklin: I only missedpelled on werd. fuk m i goud!!!
* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601850
Lvl 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Latino

[reply=sd&lmm41]
the root cause for this problem is our government, they make it to easy for people to ride for free


without getting political....if they came here, theyd be riding for free, and in comfort.

you guys in the US dont know what a real welfare state is
[/reply]


i thought politics weren't allowed????
* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601851
Lvl 10
Quote:
Originally posted by caribonz

@festivus...thank-you for answering my question. I can see (and I commend you for the job you do!!) how hard it must be to tend to the extremes of your profession. My point being though: Real drug and alcohol addiction is a fatal disease-- in most cases. The TRUE addicts never can stop. Just as someone with incruable cancer, they can only go downhill. I had intended on going into drug and alcohol counseling at one point, but found it to be to heartbreaking. I'm pretty sure that diabetes is now the number three cause of death in the U.S.. On surface reasoning these people should be able to control this more than the alcy/addict.... but addiction is addiction. Of course much of the data gets dumped into the giant vat of heart disease, lung diseaes and then diabetes. The point being it's hard to say how much of the heart and lung (druggies smoke) disease is related to that addiction. Anyway I appreciate your discussion and keep up your great work




@franklin: I only missedpelled on werd. fuk m i goud!!!


* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601852
Lvl 12
Quote:
Originally posted by caribonz

@festivus...thank-you for answering my question. I can see (and I commend you for the job you do!!) how hard it must be to tend to the extremes of your profession. My point being though: Real drug and alcohol addiction is a fatal disease-- in most cases. The TRUE addicts never can stop. Just as someone with incruable cancer, they can only go downhill. I had intended on going into drug and alcohol counseling at one point, but found it to be to heartbreaking. I'm pretty sure that diabetes is now the number three cause of death in the U.S.. On surface reasoning these people should be able to control this more than the alcy/addict.... but addiction is addiction. Of course much of the data gets dumped into the giant vat of heart disease, lung diseaes and then diabetes. The point being it's hard to say how much of the heart and lung (druggies smoke) disease is related to that addiction. Anyway I appreciate your discussion and keep up your great work




@franklin: I only missedpelled on werd. fuk m i goud!!!


thanks for the comment, like i said earlier, the homeless issue is a very complicated issue.
* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601853
Lvl 12
Sorry... but I just had this funny image of that guy waiting with the sign by the offramp.... going to his suburban home, taking off his costume, jumping in the jacuzi... and watching the plasa, with full cable, hookers and champaigne
* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601854
Lvl 13
my favorite is the ones who are selling pens on the off ramp for like 5 cents


personally i have no patience for the homeless and the welfare, but i also tend to be something of a .... damnit i can't think of the word i am looking for, but basically i just don't have any patience for them and very little sympathy most of the time
* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601855
Lvl 12
Homeless people with mental illnesses I feel sorry for, and would help if I could. Homeless people who have fucked up their lives with drugs and/or alcohol, are reaping what they have sewn. Alcoholism is a disease like diabetes? Hmmm... how many diabetics do you know make a conscious effort to get dressed, go down to the local tavern, and order a round of blindness? How many cancer patients go to the corner store for a six-pack of tumors? Not many people snorting multiple sclerosis off a mirror last time I checked.

Please don't tell me this organization or that one claims addiction is a disease. Every cause needs funding, and funding comes through "proving" legitimacy.
* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601856
Lvl 10
Quote:
Originally posted by JohnieMac

[reply=hsv]
A few years a go Time magazine did an article on twin brothers who had grown up with an alcoholic, abusive shit of a father who beat and raped them regularly.

One brother was a homeless alcoholic drug addict and the other was a highly successful businessman.

When asked why they had turned out like they did, they both had exactly the same answer - "Beacuse of my dad".

One used their childhood as an excuse and the other as a motivator.

So my opinion is that you can say all you want about disease lack of opportunity and stuff, but at the end of the day it really just comes down to have you got the balls to try or are your just a loser




your opinion is flawed: do you want to maintain a state of mind that is just plain scientifically wrong? Why? What purpose does that serve you? Your Time magazine offer is ONE case. Do you know how scientific studies are framed? Do you know that some IDENTICAL twins become schizephenic and some don't? Some get cancer..some don't. You are stating as fact something that needs to fit into a framework that you have in your mind for less fortunate people. You are so certain that they are weak and bad.. maybe that reasoning is flawed too.
[/reply]

Your whole reply is flawed - both logically and grammatically.

I never even mentioned schizophrenia or any other mental illness.

I simply stated that blaming others for your circumstances is a load of crap. Almost everything that we do in life comes down to, and is a direct result of the consequences of the choices that we make!
* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601857
Lvl 12
Quote:
Originally posted by hsv

[reply=JohnieMac]
[reply=hsv]
A few years a go Time magazine did an article on twin brothers who had grown up with an alcoholic, abusive shit of a father who beat and raped them regularly.

One brother was a homeless alcoholic drug addict and the other was a highly successful businessman.

When asked why they had turned out like they did, they both had exactly the same answer - "Beacuse of my dad".

One used their childhood as an excuse and the other as a motivator.

So my opinion is that you can say all you want about disease lack of opportunity and stuff, but at the end of the day it really just comes down to have you got the balls to try or are your just a loser




your opinion is flawed: do you want to maintain a state of mind that is just plain scientifically wrong? Why? What purpose does that serve you? Your Time magazine offer is ONE case. Do you know how scientific studies are framed? Do you know that some IDENTICAL twins become schizephenic and some don't? Some get cancer..some don't. You are stating as fact something that needs to fit into a framework that you have in your mind for less fortunate people. You are so certain that they are weak and bad.. maybe that reasoning is flawed too.
[/reply]

Your whole reply is flawed - both logically and grammatically.

I never even mentioned schizophrenia or any other mental illness.

I simply stated that blaming others for your circumstances is a load of crap. Almost everything that we do in life comes down to, and is a direct result of the consequences of the choices that we make!
[/reply]

I'm not a MOD but if you continue to pollute this thread with your cat fight bullshit, i'll cut your nuts with a spoon.

(K)
* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601858
Quote:
Originally posted by IrishCharm

I'm not a MOD but if you continue to pollute this thread with your cat fight bullshit, i'll cut your nuts with a spoon.

(K)


i guess you know cat fighting..
* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601859
Lvl 28
I only know monkey knife fighting.

* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601860
Lvl 13
way to go IC

still can't believe jeff hasn't posted an opinion, i am going to pm him and see if he will, that ought to be entertaining
* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601861
Lvl 14
I was kind of asked to weigh in on this so I guess I will. I live in or at least near Austin Texas, which attracts TONS of homeless due to it's warm climate, nationally central location, at least four free-food-and-bed agencies (including the Salvation Army) all within walking distance of each other right downtown (whcih is also where they hang out and bum money all day) and a highly sympathetic public.

After living here for over fifteen years, I can say without a doubt that no matter what excuse they all had for ending up on the streets-and believe me they all have their own sob story-not a single one of these guys was, in the final analysis, smart enough to not sink straight to the bottom of the societal pile and stay there. Some people are just so damn stupid they're destined for it. They're just too damn DUMB for society to have any use for. They're also all addicted to either drugs or booze without exception. Some of them are mentally ill, yes. But even those ones are addicted to drugs and booze so they're bound to stay on the streets. If they hadn't heard in the past 30 years that heroin and crack are kinda addictive and you should not play with them, then they got what they deserved. Yeah they're addicted now, but the point is they weren't when they decided to do that first hit, so tough titty, guys. Basically it's their own damn fault. People above a certain (and not even very high at that) intellectual level basically do not end up on the streets. The dumbasses in life do.

By the way, you're a redneck if you have not been in a flying airplane and you're over 30 years old. That is not a joke. You really are a redneck if that's the case.
* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
#2601862
Lvl 13
Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff613

By the way, you're a redneck if you have not been in a flying airplane and you're over 30 years old.


is that as opposed to a non-flying airplane, i know there are birds that don't fly but i didn't think there were to many airplanes like that



anyway, that was the kind of response i expected, and in this case i kind of figured i would have to agree with jeff for the most part, he puts it so much more eloquently than i possibly could though (about the homeless i mean)
* This post has been modified : 19 years ago
  • Goto: