"Sexual assault is a bunch of hooey"....George Will

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Originally posted by ranging

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No. That's a terrible excuse for the inexcusable.

Yeah, I agree. Blaming it on alcohol (or people getting drunk enough to lose their senses or fall victim or whatnot) is whitewashing a much larger issue, and boarders on blaming victims.

"She drank too much, so she was assaulted." She was assaulted cause some jerk assaulted her. Not because she drank alcohol. The problem isn't that she wasn't sober enough to fight off an attacker, it's that there was an attacker in the first place.

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Originally posted by ranging

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No. That's a terrible excuse for the inexcusable.

I wasn't making excuses, I was pointing out society has changed..... You look both ways when crossing the road but when your drunk you don't always look... Maybe that was a bad example but the point is the same alcohol is a big part of the problem... People put them selfs in danger for no reason apart from being drunk

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Originally posted by sumo999

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I wasn't making excuses, I was pointing out society has changed..... You look both ways when crossing the road but when your drunk you don't always look... Maybe that was a bad example but the point is the same alcohol is a big part of the problem... People put them selfs in danger for no reason apart from being drunk

The difference between being struck by a car and assaulted while drunk, is that the vehicle accident is an accident. Yes, you were drunk. But the driver had no intent to hurt you. Whereas, in a sexual assault, the other person specifically intended to harm you.

You can look both ways, sober or drunk, but if someone intends to run you down, then it's their actions and not your mistakes, that are to blame.

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Originally posted by Bangledesh

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Yeah, I agree. Blaming it on alcohol (or people getting drunk enough to lose their senses or fall victim or whatnot) is whitewashing a much larger issue, and boarders on blaming victims.

"She drank too much, so she was assaulted." She was assaulted cause some jerk assaulted her. Not because she drank alcohol. The problem isn't that she wasn't sober enough to fight off an attacker, it's that there was an attacker in the first place.

I wasn't meaning the victim was to drunk to fight of the attacker, there are lots of factors with drink....

Also it works the other way 2 people are drunk they have sex, they both wanted to she wakes up and regrets it so cries rape if the boy was not so drunk as well as her he would have enough sense not to get himself in that position by sleeping with a drunk girl.....

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Originally posted by sumo999

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I wasn't meaning the victim was to drunk to fight of the attacker, there are lots of factors with drink....

Also it works the other way 2 people are drunk they have sex, they both wanted to she wakes up and regrets it so cries rape if the boy was not so drunk as well as her he would have enough sense not to get himself in that position by sleeping with a drunk girl.....

I think I understand what you're trying to say. Yeah, alcohol might be a factor. But it's not a reason and it shouldn't be to blame for assaults. Alcohol doesn't equal rape. Alcohol plus a predator can equal rape, though.

Getting tipsy and getting flirty with someone doesn't result in assault simply because they had a few drinks. It results in assault because someone decided to assault them. Yeah, they might be... more of a target. But they're only a target to rapists. The problem is that there is a rapist, not that someone decided to have a few drinks.

But, as to that whole "girl having regrets in the morning thing," my understanding is that that is blown way out of proportion in media and men's colloquialisms. Not saying it doesn't happen, because it does. But I think I remember SP posting a link awhile back that says that less than something like 3-5% of reported rapes are women filing a false report due to regret. I could be wrong though.

[reply=Sugarpie]What the fuck is an old white privileged male doing talking about rape and political correctness anyway? [/quote]

Keep your racist shit to yourself.

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Originally posted by Sugarpie

You haven't read a fucking thing I've said. I've said time and time and time again, my response is not "don't rape" My response is we don't need a debate to tell us rape is bad, we need a debate on WHY its bad and how to stop it.

Actually, what you said is that privileged old white males should shut the fuck up and don't deserve freedom of speech on any topic. Would his opinion matter more if he was a rapist so he had some insight on the subject? Because that seems to be what you're trying to say. That only rapists and rape victims should be able to comment on the issue because nobody else have anything to do with the discussion.

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Originally posted by Bangledesh

But we're, presumably, not rapists.

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Originally posted by Althalus

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Actually, what you said is that privileged old white males should shut the fuck up and don't deserve freedom of speech on any topic. Would his opinion matter more if he was a rapist so he had some insight on the subject? Because that seems to be what you're trying to say. That only rapists and rape victims should be able to comment on the issue because nobody else have anything to do with the discussion.

Actually yeah, if he was a rapist then at least he'd potentially have something valuable to say. Maybe some insight as to why he does what he does. But Will...he offers nothing except misinformation that is trying to convince people that college rape and sexual assault isn't real. Maybe my choice of words originally was poor, obviously some "old white men" could have something valuable to contribute, what I really meant was THIS old white male doesn't.

And it has nothing to do with race as the other poster suggests, I'm white and certainly not a racist. The only reason I mentioned that his is white is because let's face it, his age, his position in life, and his skin colour does put him in a different position; a position that faces less violent crime and discrimination. If he was black and made the same comments, I'd still have the same problems with what he said.

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But Will...he offers nothing except misinformation that is trying to convince people that college rape and sexual assault isn't real

Again, he is not trying to convince people. He is using what people already think to get some echo from them. Come on, this is basic communication strategy here, you should know that...
Why would a politician have a speech that makes him look like the worst guy ever only to create such a trend ? No he is just aiming at extremist/misinformed people with an extremist/misinformed speech.

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I never said that. I said that we don't need to convince people that its a problem...we all know its a problem

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Attention to what subject? That rape is bad? We all know that.

I know that, you know that but I really think there a lot of people out there who don't or at least minimize it. These are the people this guy is aiming at. Bangle and I aren't saying that his speech is good in itself (he is plain wrong, yes) but that it is good that once in while such a speech happens so that it gets instantly and objectively criticised so that these people get the message and eventually change their mind.
If everyone was already thinking that rape is a real issue that needs some solution, no politician would have that kind of speech because that'd be such a bad strategy.

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Originally posted by Davey45

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Hmm... I like your style. Always vigilant, looking around trying to find them. Nice.

George must be getting Senile

You guys just don't get it.

How does debating about whether or not rape is a problem and if sexual assault is a real thing, solve ending rape? It doesn't. Its like trying to plan a mission to Mars, but first debating if Mars is real. Its a waste of time. Stop focusing on if there is a problem, and start discussing on how to fix it.

"You just don't get it." You fix it by stopping the thought process behind it, that allows it to exist.

You can't stop rape by just saying that rape needs to stop. No amount of arbitrary punishment is going to stop rape if the belief is out there that rape is okay. That what they're doing isn't rape. Rape can mean life imprisonment. Rape, when caught in the act can mean being beaten to death. Rape when imprisoned means being raped yourself.

What do you want to do? How do you want to stop rape? Make women wear anti-rape condoms and chastity belts and mouth guards, carry shotguns everywhere, and have women escorted by body guards and have them secluded in separate women-only enclaves? So that they don't have to be around men that might rape them?

Or do you want to stop rapists from developing and becoming rapists?

You have to address the problem if you actually want to fix it.

No one here is saying that we need to talk about whether or not rape is real, or a problem. We're saying we need to challenge the thought process of those that would rape or assault someone because they don't recognize what they're doing.

Fuck George Will and his thoughts. It isn't about him. We're not convincing him that rape is a problem. It's about everyone else in the world. We're convincing everyone else not to rape, because rape is wrong. And we're doing it by showing them how wrong George Will is because he dismisses rape and sexual assault.






Bangledesh says to no one in particular.

I can live with that approach, as long as this stays on the front burner for a long long time.

That said, I do fervently hope that George Will is ass raped in the very near future and gets to experience what too many women are threatened by.

A little personal side note- we were scheduled to vacation in India this year but it's a hard thing to imagine now with all the headlines of the rape epidemic that is going on there. Seems like it is culturally accepted there....almost as a social force majure and unavoidable. By comparison we have a rather safe life here, but when I read GW's rant I wonder what direction we as a culture really want to go in. I'm interested in what comment he gets in the media for such an outburst.

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Originally posted by F1098

I can live with that approach, as long as this stays on the front burner for a long long time.

That said, I do fervently hope that George Will is ass raped in the very near future and gets to experience what too many women are threatened by.

A little personal side note- we were scheduled to vacation in India this year but it's a hard thing to imagine now with all the headlines of the rape epidemic that is going on there. Seems like it is culturally accepted there....almost as a social force majure and unavoidable. By comparison we have a rather safe life here, but when I read GW's rant I wonder what direction we as a culture really want to go in. I'm interested in what comment he gets in the media for such an outburst.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to wish rape, all he did was share an ignorant opinion.
But he definitely should experience a damn scary watershed moment. Shake his world up and let him experience fear.

No. Why let him have half the experience ? It would be educational and he could write about it.

Well... would you be willing to do it?
You shouldn't wish things to happen to people that you aren't willing to do to them. It's easy to wish bad things, or difficult situations that you want other people to take care of.

I feel that people would reconsider their opinions if they couldn't just pass off the consequences to other, unknown and nameless, people.

Knowing F1098's deviancy, she would probably be up for forceful pegging.

Talk all you want about not wishing something on someone that you yourself wouldn't go through, and debate over this and that and the other thing...write your articles, your blogs, your forum posts, but until you've been a victim your opinion isn't as important as someone who has.

Yeah, yeah, you're all going to say that everyone's opinion is important and that excluding someone's opinion just because they are't a victim is wrong, but a victim has lived it and has an experience and point of view that nobody else has. A victim fights for change, they want education, and new/revised laws and they want it now.

Listening to people like George Will and the debate that he's starting about whether rape really is at problematic levels or not is pointless. It doesn't serve a purpose for a greater discussion on rape and how to stop it, all it does is it causes people from both sides of the argument to keep arguing about whether or not rape is at epidemic levels, and how stupid Will is. All I've heard since Will wrote his column is how out of touch he is, and dumb he was for making those comments, I haven't heard any discussion about new education programs to help prevent rape. We're having the wrong discussion post Will's comments, and that is the problem whenever someone like him says something like this. Yeah...it brings all kinds of attention to how stupid it is to think that rape isn't at problematic levels, but it does nothing to solve the problem of rape.

I'm not saying that because I'm a victim I have all the answers, but me and others like me seem to be the only ones who want to start the discussion on how to stop rape...everyone else wants to point fingers at Will and say how ridiculous he is.