What's causing the collapse of American civilization. Really.

People sue for the most ridiculous reasons. It's a flagrant abuse of our justice system. I remember hearing something on the radio about a guy who sued a milk producer for getting him "addicted" to milk. How the f*ck do you come up with something that retarded. It's like saying 'I'm gonna sue God for getting me addicted to sex'. Sometimes I lose faith in people.

America, as some of you call it, it is not a civilization
Damn i am not even sure it a culture!

Quote:

Originally posted by m1k3p0w311

People sue for the most ridiculous reasons. It's a flagrant abuse of our justice system. I remember hearing something on the radio about a guy who sued a milk producer for getting him "addicted" to milk. How the f*ck do you come up with something that retarded. It's like saying 'I'm gonna sue God for getting me addicted to sex'. Sometimes I lose faith in people.

We are privileged to be able to sue for “ridiculous” reasons. Only grievances that are based on some kind of legal/constitutional violation can go to court (you can sue someone just because you don’t like them). Also a common myth is that courts/juries award large sums of money to the “ridiculous” cases but that isn’t true. In fact its really hard to take someone to court (at least in AZ). The average case takes 2 years to get to court and of course costs thousands of dollars. Most are settled out of court by a court appointed mediator. (In AZ going to mediator is required in some cases before being allowed to go to trial). Also the ridiculous cases (especially the ones the win) are well publicized.

There are a lot bigger fish to fry when it comes to failures in our justice system. Plea bargains abuse the justice system on a far larger scale and send innocent people to jail regularly.

Also, Amanda Wenk is hot as hell

Quote:

Originally posted by Jackster

[reply=kennyMan2000]
.....
As far as America being “over regulated” I somewhat agree. We have the most laws of any other country. However most are not followed or enforced. ....
In regards to you specific incident with your dog I suggest you “get involved”. Did you ever stop to think, maybe the owner doesn’t have the right to ask you to leave for this reason? Check up on it. ....

I have a lot more to say because you are so wrong on so many levels but I doubt anyone will read this and I love porn.

Summary: You are stating, in your response to Jeff's tirade against the over regulation of society, that one of the actions that made Jeff angry about regulations (the prohibition of his dog at the bar, a prohibition enacted by the owner of the bar) can possibly be overcome by Jeff finding a regulation against the bar owner's action? In short, you would have Jeff prohibit the bar owner from running the bar as the owner felt it should be run.

...And Jeff's wrong on so many levels?
[/reply]


My point: I was merely recommending that Jeff be aware of his rights on an issue that seems to be really important to him. If Jeff happened to somehow overcome the regulation than so what? The bar owner must abide by the laws to get a business and liquor license. He must have various food handling permits and go through inspections (should) by agents of the government. You want to do business, you must obey the law and if Jeff exercised his rights to petition the bar owner than great (though I’ll admit I don’t care about Jeff or his dog, that much).

I like pancakes.

in some countries they would have cooked the dog up and served it to you with your drinks

well u want to know whats wrong with the usa ? its the crazy church people . they want to censored everything .

ok, to sum up the thread in 3 short sentences.

1. America is far from civilized

2. your rights end where the other guy's begin

3. Jeff is writing essays AGAIN

Man, long post even for Jeff.

What is killing the US is the same thing killing Europe. The nanny state. As people become more and more dependent upon the state to provide things they should be providing, their freedoms become more under the control of the state. Europe did it by choice, America is doing it by lawsuit. Most of the crap that goes on is just so they bar owner doesn't have to pay lawyers so he settles out of court. He would probably win his case but the lawyers fees would eat him alive. Once he settles the suit, it becomes "common knowledge" that these cases are OK to go with and juries become accustommed to these suits, leading to large judgements later. Most of Europe has a loser pays system where the person who loses the lawsuit has to pay the lawyers of the person who wins. If we implemented that you would see more and more cases actually go to trial and less settlements.

I feel so enlightened ...

Could someone just classify this thread as "politics" and lock it?

@Mr_Big me, too! Maybe I should have some for dinner...

Quote:

Originally posted by nerdboy

ok, to sum up the thread in 3 short sentences.

We'll see about that.

Quote:

Originally posted by nerdboy

1. America is far from civilized

I would argue that America is at least as civilized as any other country on the planet. More so than many of them. This is because America's civilization is based on the best parts of everyone elses. Yes we have problems, but it is still a lot better than most.

Quote:

Originally posted by nerdboy

2. your rights end where the other guy's begin

This is partly true. Where the other guys rights begin is up for debate though. Shouldn't a bar owner have the right to allow smoking if he wants? It infringes on noones rights as the workers and patrons have the choice not to go there and once they make the choice to go there they have made the choice to forgo the right to a non-smoking environment. Same goes for dogs or cats in bars. Logan's roadhouse has a long standing tradition of having people eat peanuts at their tables and throw the shells on the floor like an old Texas roadhouse used to do. Should we stop that because some people are alergic to peanuts? When you leave an open end to where rights begin and end you are asking for a dull society and a nanny state.

We do agree on one thign though.

Quote:

Originally posted by nerdboy

3. Jeff is writing essays AGAIN

Quote:

Originally posted by rocknthefreewor

What is killing the US is the same thing killing Europe. The nanny state. As people become more and more dependent upon the state to provide things they should be providing, their freedoms become more under the control of the state. Europe did it by choice, America is doing it by lawsuit. Most of the crap that goes on is just so they bar owner doesn't have to pay lawyers so he settles out of court. He would probably win his case but the lawyers fees would eat him alive. Once he settles the suit, it becomes "common knowledge" that these cases are OK to go with and juries become accustommed to these suits, leading to large judgements later. Most of Europe has a loser pays system where the person who loses the lawsuit has to pay the lawyers of the person who wins. If we implemented that you would see more and more cases actually go to trial and less settlements.

Generally both sides of a court case feel that they will win but the reality is that no one really wins and there is a clear looser. I agree that our constitutional rights have been eroded, slowly over the past twenty years but America is nothing like Europe.
Also settlements are done outside of court and how can juries get accustomed to particular types of suits (I’m not sure what u meant by that??). Here in America most people serve in a jury maybe once in their lifetime.

Too get out of jury duty:
1) Say your racist (ehh)
2) Claim to believe in the ancient right of nullification

Okay what the fuck?
Why would you want to take your dog to a bar? I have never ever gone "hrmmm time for a beer and to go chat up some ladies. Now where did I leave Fido's leash." Why would you want to take a dog to the pub? never in my years have I sat there at a Pub and thought "You know what would make this place more fun, if i brought my dog here" it is just messed up that you are complaining about not being able to bring a dog to a pub

Quote:

Originally posted by rocknthefreewor

[reply=nerdboy]
ok, to sum up the thread in 3 short sentences.

We'll see about that.

Quote:

Originally posted by nerdboy

1. America is far from civilized

I would argue that America is at least as civilized as any other country on the planet. More so than many of them. This is because America's civilization is based on the best parts of everyone elses. Yes we have problems, but it is still a lot better than most.

Quote:

Originally posted by nerdboy

2. your rights end where the other guy's begin

This is partly true. Where the other guys rights begin is up for debate though. Shouldn't a bar owner have the right to allow smoking if he wants? It infringes on noones rights as the workers and patrons have the choice not to go there and once they make the choice to go there they have made the choice to forgo the right to a non-smoking environment. Same goes for dogs or cats in bars. Logan's roadhouse has a long standing tradition of having people eat peanuts at their tables and throw the shells on the floor like an old Texas roadhouse used to do. Should we stop that because some people are alergic to peanuts? When you leave an open end to where rights begin and end you are asking for a dull society and a nanny state.

We do agree on one thign though.

Quote:

Originally posted by nerdboy

3. Jeff is writing essays AGAIN

[/reply]

I missed the part were it say that citizens have the right to smoke in the constitution. Maybe its in the bill of rights?

Bars are public areas. Second hand smoke has been proven to be harmful (not saying I agree). Small children, people with asthma, small children with asthma might be particularly vulnerable to second hand smoke. They have a right to be in public areas and the right to live. Those rights outweigh the bar owners rights. (I’m not saying I’m for/against smokers).

Nerboy is right

Obvioulsy, Jeff does not have any spoofs because this thread has a 1 rating by everyone who voted.

Where are my damn pancakes

Quote:

Originally posted by kennyMan2000

I missed the part were it say that citizens have the right to smoke in the constitution. Maybe its in the bill of rights?

Bars are public areas. Second hand smoke has been proven to be harmful (not saying I agree). Small children, people with asthma, small children with asthma might be particularly vulnerable to second hand smoke. They have a right to be in public areas and the right to live. Those rights outweigh the bar owners rights. (I’m not saying I’m for/against smokers).

Nerboy is right

Bars are not public places. Bars are private businesses. That is part of the problem in America. People seem to think they have a right to make the business someone owns public property. It is a small move from that to making your home their property also. But wait, they've already done that too.

Quote:

Originally posted by kennyMan2000

I missed the part were it say that citizens have the right to smoke in the constitution. Maybe its in the bill of rights?

Bars are public areas. Second hand smoke has been proven to be harmful (not saying I agree). Small children, people with asthma, small children with asthma might be particularly vulnerable to second hand smoke. They have a right to be in public areas and the right to live. Those rights outweigh the bar owners rights. (I’m not saying I’m for/against smokers).

Nerboy is right

Absolutely wrong. The constitution just says that we're free to make our own choices, it doesn't need to specifically say smoking. Anyone can choose not to enter a bar if they disagree with the bar owners policy, so the the bar owner should be allowed to choose his policies, not forced to cater to people he doesn't want as customers. The bar owner has a right to run his business anyway he pleases as long as he's fair to his customers that CHOOSE to be his customers. If you don't like smoking, then don't come in, it's that simple. Why should he have to accomodate clientelle he doesn't want to accomodate? After all, he started the business, funded it himself and OWNS it. Your point about kids is just plain stupid, we're talking about a bar here not a Chuck E Cheese's, kids shouldn't be there anyway. You are the type of person that's making our country suck, because you want everything to be regulated. You want people not to have a right to CHOOSE what we do but rather be TOLD what to do just cause because the government deems it inappropriate. Don't be surprised when we can't log onto WBW anymore because of people just like you who feel we shouldn't be allowed to choose anything and want porn illegal because scientist have also proven that porn can trigger psychotic dillusions in people who are pre-disposed to violent crimes. Such as rapists and serial killers, almost every single one has listed porn as something they were almost obsessed with before they went out killing people. So I guess you would agree that because porn could negatively influence some people and make them want to rape and kill that none of us should be allowed to choose to view porn. Freedom is about making your own choices, the more we allow the government to control our choices the more we lose our freedom. If you give them an inch they will take a mile every single time, and though you seem to not care about smokers rights eventually they'll get on to something you do care about.

Quote:

Originally posted by rocknthefreewor

[reply=kennyMan2000]
I missed the part were it say that citizens have the right to smoke in the constitution. Maybe its in the bill of rights?

Bars are public areas. Second hand smoke has been proven to be harmful (not saying I agree). Small children, people with asthma, small children with asthma might be particularly vulnerable to second hand smoke. They have a right to be in public areas and the right to live. Those rights outweigh the bar owners rights. (I’m not saying I’m for/against smokers).

Nerboy is right

Bars are not public places. Bars are private businesses. That is part of the problem in America. People seem to think they have a right to make the business someone owns public property. It is a small move from that to making your home their property also. But wait, they've already done that too.
[/reply]



I think you mean that privatly owned bars aren't public property. It is however a public area. Any citizen can go into a bar becuase of the rights protected by the constitution. Your home however is not public property. You a free to restrict access to it. Got it? Understand? good

And Nerboy was mostly right about his second point.