Most Americans do not have "good jobs".....

Move

i had a good job and a nice place to live but then my mom kicked me out and cut my allowance. but hey tommorow is another day.

I've worked some shit jobs before, never went to college, don't make a lot of money, and am not complaining because I chose to do so. I am happy with my job and my life. If you want to be wealthy you need to earn it. Don't be such a arrogant bastard wow10inches, I've known many dishwashers and such in my days and I am positive that they all have much more common decency then you've ever had. Karma will probably end up fucking you someday one way or another. People assume that money makes them a better person then others.

One thing I have learned in life, the more you make the more it takes. If you want more, put yourself in the position to get it or shut the fuck up. People who whine about how they are being held down are normally looking for the elevator to pick them up, instead of trying to climb the ladder themselves.

I agree, you get what you deserve.......usually

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Originally posted by Z-BO

I agree, you get what you deserve.......usually

There are times where it is out of your control. But those times are the exception instead of the rule. In my case, I had worked my way up from the mail room to accounting in a company and they shut down. I had to take a lower paying job for a while to make ends meet but as soon as I could I found a better job, and worked my way from sector 7G system grunt to where I am now.

Its like I tell my son, if you go into a competition thinking the best you can do is third and working for that, then the best you can do is third and you will probably do worse. But if you go in thinking you can win it all and work accordingly, you just might win it.

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I didn't graduate college, I don't kiss ass and I make $90 an hour.

I have never, in my entire life, known someone that makes about $200,000 that is an hourly employee. That is why it is obvious you are a liar.

As far as jobs, sometimes you have to eat shit for a while and work harder than everyone else to get somewhere. I have had jobs making $22,000 and $25,000 annually and now I make over 3 times that. I am 27 years old, and I am aware that for many of you $80,000 a year is not impressive. But I do live in a small city (nowhere near LA or NY) and the average income around here is probably $20,000. The cost of living here is low, making the value of my income very good for this area. Everything I have I own, I make payments on my house (mortgage) only.

How did I get a job making great money at 27? I worked my fucking ass off in high school to get a scholarship to go to a top ranked state school that then got me a great degree with good grades to get into an MBA program at a smaller university. I got my MBA at night in 14 months. I paid my way through and ate more shit for a while. All that bullshit has paid off now...

What is great about my country, and maybe other countries too but I have no experience in them, is that the harder you work, and the more you put your head down and plow through work, the better chance you have to become rich. If you put up the effort, the people that matter will notice.

For those complaining, be the first person at work and the last to leave for a year. Take no time off. That will be enough for everyone to recognize you mean business. If you don't have a great raise or promotion at that point than you can say to yourself "I have a shitty work ethic."

ah christ

Oh, and as far as unions, I don't think they are necessary in today's world. Why? Because we have the lawsuit. The unions started in the US during the industrial revolultion because people like Rockefeller and Ford liked to work the shit out of people (men, women and literally children). Then, when those people lost an arm in Ford's plant, they were just shit out of luck and fired. "Sorry, but you can't work with that nub."

Today, if any of that shit happened you would sue the Ford family for $50,000,000 and then blow that on strippers, coke and booze and then die in a gutter somewhere...

Unions to me are like fraternities. If you want to give someone money just to call them brother, knock yourself out, but it is not at all necessary.

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Originally posted by Punnani

Opps sorry, this is America... I will Just go back to the UK.

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Originally posted by Jeff613

a good job being defined as one where you make at least $16 an hour and have some benefits to speak of.

Geez, my definition of a good job is a job that I enjoy and actually am happy to do. I have that with my current job: the pay is crap but I actually look forward to going to work each morning....

I got a degree, an M.A. in fact, and I got a great job as a college professor. I make good money and get 22 weeks a year free. And you know what? I organized my faculty into a union and am now the president of that union.

Why do college professors need a union? It's not about money - we didn't form the union for money and we've never worried too much about it. The union is about working conditions and protecting our rights and positions. College is like any other work environment: the conditions under which labor works have been degrading for nearly thirty years. Back in the 1980's, the American people were told that greed was good, that workers were lazy, and that to compete with the Japanese we had to give up benefits, wages and rights. We did, but our lots have not improved. Most decent manufacturing jobs have been exported overseas to low-wage countries instead, and millions of workers were displaced. At the same time, the managers and CEOs made hundreds of millions.

The trend has only gotten worse since then. Today CEOs make something on the order of 130 times their wage-earning employees, and many seem to be paid regardless of job performance. Meanwhile over 40 million Americans do not have health insurance. The political structure is bought and paid for by capitalists and has little or no concern for working people.

Get a degree? Go ahead. Indications are now that 5 - 8 million more information service jobs will be outsourced in the next decade. IT jobs lie highest among those to be outsourced.

Get a degree? Please, do. You make sure I have a job for the foreseeable future.

No offense, but it is widely understood that the University professors of America are as liberal as people come. That might not be a bad thing, but I would keep in mind that Dionysus' position is generally going to be on one end of the spectrum due to his job.

you have to have the ability to sell ketchup popsicles to women wearing white gloves... and maybe a skill of sorts.

Quote:

Originally posted by LS650

[reply=Jeff613]a good job being defined as one where you make at least $16 an hour and have some benefits to speak of.

Geez, my definition of a good job is a job that I enjoy and actually am happy to do. I have that with my current job: the pay is crap but I actually look forward to going to work each morning....
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+1

when i was ski instructing i was much much happier. i often think of putting the boots back on...

@ Dionysus - You formed a union, but it's not about the money? C'mon... pull the other one, it's got bells on. The rest of your post is about nothing BUT money! What working conditions are you concerned about? Are they chaining you to your desks in your air-conditioned classrooms? Coeds not pretty enough? Not enough of you on tenure? The university admin coming down on you for having TA's and grad students teach your classes for you? Not enough time being provided for you to do personal research projects and papers so you can get published? Because that is what the professors I know complain about- and if it is then you can just go ask yourself this very basic question "What does any of this have to do with why I got this job in the first place?" Which, presumably was to TEACH. And you know, I find it interesting that people love to point out all the jobs that are being "Shipped overseas" but still ignore the fact that we have record or near record employment levels in this country (and before you say it- less than 3% of workers work at minimum wage so don't start the "but those jobs are all minimum wage" line) Tech jobs have been farmed out of the country for over half a decade now- and IT is STILL one of the best fields to get a job in the US.

Look, I made it by (as many of you have) on a HELL of a lot less than $16 and hour (my first job started at $2.75/hr and my first MANAGEMENT job was %5.25). I didn't have squat, didn't eat out, shared a room and ate LOTS of Ramen... and I STILL had it off better than most of the people in the world. Tom Clancy said it best )and I'm paraphrasing) "America is the only country in the world where the poor can get hear about a rally on their TV, drive their car downtown to join, and protest the fact that the government isn't providing them with enough money or services."

Oh, and 11111111112... I make $95 an hour too... billable time in IT work. I used to make even more as a marriage councellor.

seeing how millioms of ppl want to and do come here a yr i would say we kick ass.....AMERICA , FUCK YEAH !
HIP HIP HOORAY , WE THE CHAMP POUR THE GATORAID!

Hey spiny, great name!

Actually, I do teach - 5 section per semester, about 160 students in all. I grade somewhere in the neighborhood of 700 - 100 papers per semester. Though I am only on campus about 6 hours per day, I regularly work 3 - 6 hours at home every day, including weekends, during the semester just to keep up.

I realize I got sidetracked into a liberal anti-capitalist rant - sorry, my apologies. At my school we have been losing positions for years. The dominant trend in higher education these days is to replace tenured faculty with adjuncts, individuals with similar degrees, but who do not carry a full course load and therefore are not paid at the same rate. Instead of being paid at a semester rate, adjuncts get paid per class (in my area of the U.S., that's about $2500 per class per semester) and they are not entitled to health or retirement benefits. For colleges, obviously, this makes sense - adjuncts are essentially temps, and they are much cheaper than full-time faculty. For colleges, the adjunct iss is all about money. However, for faculty the issue is not money; it is that adjuncts have little loyalty to the institution or to the students, since the institution pays them little loyalty. So our argument is that the continuing process of losing full-time positions for a horde of adjuncts dilutes and undermines our service to our students.

In 1995 at my college our full-time to adjunct ratio was about 70-30%. Today it is about 40-60%. Unionization has not been able yet to stop this decline, but it is trying very hard to do so. Locally and nationally, education unions have taken the position that the continuing failure to fully staff universities and colleges will result in a poorer education for the millions of students who desperately need a quality education to compete in the post-modern world.

In addition, the current administration of our college has attempted to impose new, harsher working conditions over the past five years - longer semesters, higher student class counts, more duties in addition to our teaching loads, committee work and outside activities. I'm happy to say that the union that I head has stopped some of these actions and is actively seeking to reverse others with the appropriate state agencies. Morale is very poor these days, this on a campus where nearly everyone ten years ago was very happy to come to work each day. Good people are retiring or quitting early.

Education is not a business on the same model as any other production or service industry and cannot be run or measured in the same manner. The work that we perform may have impacts that last or only come to fruition long after a student's time in college is long over. I have to take care each day to encourage and not denigrate my students that what I say and do can have last impacts on the lives and the psyches of my students.

All in all, I still have the most wonderful job imaginable. What I really want is the same job I had ten years ago, before administrators using outdated business models who hate faculty for their supposed "easy life" invaded my campus and turned it upside down.

Quote:

Originally posted by LS650

[reply=Jeff613]a good job being defined as one where you make at least $16 an hour and have some benefits to speak of.

Geez, my definition of a good job is a job that I enjoy and actually am happy to do. I have that with my current job: the pay is crap but I actually look forward to going to work each morning....
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yea you hit the nail on the head. I sometimes yearn to be a clerk in a hotel, or towel boy on some resort. Fuck what anybody says. Getting paid to hang out on a beach where others are paying to be there seems pretty cool. Low stress. great view.

Let me add to this. I could be a millonaire If I wanted to. Its easily" within my reach. But it would require years of working 15 hour days with tons of stress. I dont want it. My dad is very well off and he doesnt seem to have the best life.

I have had years that I made pretty good coin and those werent the best years. Lots of work and stress. Im going back to live in the dorms forever. : )

Quote:

Originally posted by Dionysus32

Hey spiny, great name!

Actually, I do teach - 5 section per semester, about 160 students in all. I grade somewhere in the neighborhood of 700 - 100 papers per semester. Though I am only on campus about 6 hours per day, I regularly work 3 - 6 hours at home every day, including weekends, during the semester just to keep up.

I realize I got sidetracked into a liberal anti-capitalist rant - sorry, my apologies. At my school we have been losing positions for years. The dominant trend in higher education these days is to replace tenured faculty with adjuncts, individuals with similar degrees, but who do not carry a full course load and therefore are not paid at the same rate. Instead of being paid at a semester rate, adjuncts get paid per class (in my area of the U.S., that's about $2500 per class per semester) and they are not entitled to health or retirement benefits. For colleges, obviously, this makes sense - adjuncts are essentially temps, and they are much cheaper than full-time faculty. For colleges, the adjunct iss is all about money. However, for faculty the issue is not money; it is that adjuncts have little loyalty to the institution or to the students, since the institution pays them little loyalty. So our argument is that the continuing process of losing full-time positions for a horde of adjuncts dilutes and undermines our service to our students.

In 1995 at my college our full-time to adjunct ratio was about 70-30%. Today it is about 40-60%. Unionization has not been able yet to stop this decline, but it is trying very hard to do so. Locally and nationally, education unions have taken the position that the continuing failure to fully staff universities and colleges will result in a poorer education for the millions of students who desperately need a quality education to compete in the post-modern world.

In addition, the current administration of our college has attempted to impose new, harsher working conditions over the past five years - longer semesters, higher student class counts, more duties in addition to our teaching loads, committee work and outside activities. I'm happy to say that the union that I head has stopped some of these actions and is actively seeking to reverse others with the appropriate state agencies. Morale is very poor these days, this on a campus where nearly everyone ten years ago was very happy to come to work each day. Good people are retiring or quitting early.

Education is not a business on the same model as any other production or service industry and cannot be run or measured in the same manner. The work that we perform may have impacts that last or only come to fruition long after a student's time in college is long over. I have to take care each day to encourage and not denigrate my students that what I say and do can have last impacts on the lives and the psyches of my students.

All in all, I still have the most wonderful job imaginable. What I really want is the same job I had ten years ago, before administrators using outdated business models who hate faculty for their supposed "easy life" invaded my campus and turned it upside down.

You have spelled out your own problem. Anyone can do your job . Sounds like you need to do something that requires unique skills. I have no problem with universities laying off as many profs as they want. Whatever will get the rising cost of a college degree down is fine by me. If having full time profs is the way to go then the market will work itself out and those universities who keep the profs will score better and draw more students. Forcing others to pay you a wage is not what America was designed to do. If you're any good then folks will actually want to keep you and will pay more to have you. Those who can't, teach.