Exorcism

Oh yeah, and as for bad character....
this guy had none before... and none after. Hes a great guy, just fucked up for a while.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bank

well..... yes, and no.
I don't know if I believe in spirts and whatnot.... for all I know it could be fucked up synapsis (sp?) in his breain and tramua from childhood/ whatever.
If what your talking abotu is convincing the brain it's only playing games, then yes.
as for spirits/beings inside of a persons because they've 'accepted' them as real, I've got nothing to say for that. There are few things I'll belive........

Of course everyone is entitled to have an opinion and I am sure you, like I have one. We all should be in the persuit of understanding when faced with the unexplainable. Wisdom is applied understanding. Just to simplify the belief in spirits. When you talk to someone, what is it, that is communicating?
Your Mind?
Your Voice?
Your Body?

Its actually your spirit, using the above through the medium of your body. Remove all those sources of expression and you still have your spirit, but unable to communicate through normal means. All living beings express their personality through the spirit of who they are.

The big question is not "do living beings have a spirit" rather what happens to them when the human body dies? Cause we know that another living body cannot become part of another person (unless by transplant). So if an individual unintentionally changes their character, habits, behaviour, what is the cause of it?

Your rightly defend your friend as being of good charachter. I wasnt suggesting he was of bad character. What I was meaning was, (for example) in the case of an individual with a lifetime of habitually abusing their body through drugs. The need for drugs may be taken away, but the ravages of the drug taking is another issue. In therapy one seeks to remove the desire whilst resolving the reasons leading to the addiction.

Probably too deep an issue It's just that I see where you are coming from, you have your buddies interest at heart and good on ya mate for caring for him

Yet another response, like to see your opinion (could be too long, though):

Take a human, take away their senses completly--from birth to around their 40. Then give them all abilities back, including the ability to speak and be coherent. If there is a spirit, as you contend, they'd express it. Personally, I think they'd be a blank page, with nothing to say until they'd experienced after regaining their senses.
Yeah, a bit philosophical....
This is why I have difficulty believing in 'spirits'. We aren't made up of 'unearthly' things, but rather our experiences on earth, and the responses we have to them, based on other experiences. Simple example: you're a kid, and you touch the stove; it's fucking hot. You don't touch it again. Not because your spirit or anything else tells you to, but because that's what you've learned. When you communicate, it's from those experiences, stored in your brain.
The brain's pretty fucking smart; give it credit. As for disabilities, that's when the brain gets fucked up, can't handle experiences, or has bad ones. Look at shell-shocked vets. They aren't 'possesed', they've been through a fucked up situation.
It's when the supernatural enters.... that's when I question all of this. I'm still looking for explanations, but I'm not tying myself down to anything that requires faith.

::runs out fast::

bank = too much free time to write one post....

Quote:

Originally posted by juicypat

bank = too much free time to write one post....

It doesn't take much to write... just a keyboard and a brain.
I have both. People pay me for it.
And I turn the money into drink. It's great.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bank

[reply=juicypat]
bank = too much free time to write one post....

It doesn't take much to write... just a keyboard and a brain.
I have both. People pay me for it.
And I turn the money into drink. It's great.
[/reply]

good one........ Briefly! What you learn in normal life = experience (hot stove scenario)
What you learn by faith = experience AFTER the event.

Natural living says show me and I beleive
Supernatural living says I believe without seeing

Belief creates the atmosphere to see

Quote:

Originally posted by Xander54

dude type less

Dude, get an attention span.

Quote:

Originally posted by KoMiMis-L33t

There's no way i am reading that much! next time maybe

Shame. You're missing a facinating story.

Just to chip in another thought tho!

Your five natural senses - touch taste sight smell hearing - are natural instincts that we have or dont have. To speak after forty years (when youve never done it) requires a miracle, as senses at birth need educating and a data base to recall from.

If there was never been anything in it, there is nothing to draw from. (like a computer hard drive without an operating system loaded, it has nothing to communicate with, allthough all the parts are there to do so) Thats why natural senses in our body need educating. IE: ("that smells like a lemon "came from a history or data base of smelling things).

Your sixth sense is supernatural and everyone is born with it but rarely have it trained. (Its like walking into a room or relationship and sensing something is wrong. We may not know what is wrong but our instinct tells us to get out).

Train that instinct and you will know what it is and why you need to listen to that niggle.

W&D

Quote:

Originally posted by wineanddine

[reply=Bank]
[reply=juicypat]
bank = too much free time to write one post....

It doesn't take much to write... just a keyboard and a brain.
I have both. People pay me for it.
And I turn the money into drink. It's great.
[/reply]

good one........ Briefly! What you learn in normal life = experience (hot stove scenario)
What you learn by faith = experience AFTER the event.

Natural living says show me and I beleive
Supernatural living says I believe without seeing

Belief creates the atmosphere to see


[/reply]
What I think you're talking about......... correct me if I'm wrong.
Faith requires some belief that life has a point/purpose/whatever. In order to judge those experiences by faith, you have to have said faith.
Personally, when I look at my life (and others), it's mainly a random set of experiences tied together only by the fact that I'm in them all. The fact that my dog was hit by a car when I was a kid combined with the fact that I just stubbed my toe combined with the fact that I hate olives combined with the fact that I've expereinced some things people would deem supernatural.... the list goes on forever, as it does with everyone, and doesn't seem to point to any one fact, and certainly hasn't helped my soul.
They are experiences, I've learned from them or not, and I simply build from them and learn how to handle others, or not.
To believe in the soul requires faith.... there's no concrete proof, never has been, probably never will be. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just saying that I can't take that leap.

Quote:

Originally posted by wineanddine

Just to chip in another thought tho!

Your five natural senses - touch taste sight smell hearing - are natural instincts that we have or dont have. To speak after forty years (when youve never done it) requires a miracle, as senses at birth need educating and a data base to recall from.

If there was never been anything in it, there is nothing to draw from. (like a computer hard drive without an operating system loaded, it has nothing to communicate with, allthough all the parts are there to do so) Thats why natural senses in our body need educating. IE: ("that smells like a lemon "came from a history or data base of smelling things).

Your sixth sense is supernatural and everyone is born with it but rarely have it trained. (Its like walking into a room or relationship and sensing something is wrong. We may not know what is wrong but our instinct tells us to get out).

Train that instinct and you will know what it is and why you need to listen to that niggle.

W&D

Are you saying that instincts are proof of souls/6th sense?
Do animals and plants have souls as well?
Something that eats its own shit... hard to imagine.

qoute:

Are you saying that instincts are proof of souls/6th sense? (never said that - re-read)
Do animals and plants have souls as well? (never said that! what seperates humanity from other life is intellect-soul )
Something that eats its own shit... hard to imagine. (have a look at some of the sick human stuff on the internet eating their own shit then tell me you cant believe!)

Quote:

Originally posted by Bank

[reply=wineanddine]
[reply=Bank]
[reply=juicypat]
bank = too much free time to write one post....

It doesn't take much to write... just a keyboard and a brain.
I have both. People pay me for it.
And I turn the money into drink. It's great.
[/reply]

good one........ Briefly! What you learn in normal life = experience (hot stove scenario)
What you learn by faith = experience AFTER the event.

Natural living says show me and I beleive
Supernatural living says I believe without seeing

Belief creates the atmosphere to see


[/reply]
What I think you're talking about......... correct me if I'm wrong.
Faith requires some belief that life has a point/purpose/whatever. In order to judge those experiences by faith, you have to have said faith.
Personally, when I look at my life (and others), it's mainly a random set of experiences tied together only by the fact that I'm in them all. The fact that my dog was hit by a car when I was a kid combined with the fact that I just stubbed my toe combined with the fact that I hate olives combined with the fact that I've expereinced some things people would deem supernatural.... the list goes on forever, as it does with everyone, and doesn't seem to point to any one fact, and certainly hasn't helped my soul.
They are experiences, I've learned from them or not, and I simply build from them and learn how to handle others, or not.
To believe in the soul requires faith.... there's no concrete proof, never has been, probably never will be. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just saying that I can't take that leap.
[/reply]

There is nothing supernatural about the circumstances you mentioned. They are life experiences. When you have seen eyes come into eye sockets, legs grow, crippled people walk, and sterile people conceive - it is easier to believe in somehting you cant explain.

The soul is made up of your mind will and emotions. A proven fact acknowledged by medical profession, psychiatry profession and therapy profession. Most of which do not profess to do their job by faith, but by knowledge and intellect.

We dony beleive in the soul, we believe in faith. THe soul is a fact (doesnt require faith). What you can do naturally, you do, what you cant do naturally you require a miracle, which is the currency is faith.

Intellect does not explain faith, it reasons it. Faith believes without any evidence. However when the evidence does come it encourages greater faith.

W&D

Quote:

Originally posted by wineanddine

[reply=Bank]
[reply=wineanddine]
[reply=Bank]
[reply=juicypat]
bank = too much free time to write one post....

It doesn't take much to write... just a keyboard and a brain.
I have both. People pay me for it.
And I turn the money into drink. It's great.
[/reply]

good one........ Briefly! What you learn in normal life = experience (hot stove scenario)
What you learn by faith = experience AFTER the event.

Natural living says show me and I beleive
Supernatural living says I believe without seeing

Belief creates the atmosphere to see


[/reply]
What I think you're talking about......... correct me if I'm wrong.
Faith requires some belief that life has a point/purpose/whatever. In order to judge those experiences by faith, you have to have said faith.
Personally, when I look at my life (and others), it's mainly a random set of experiences tied together only by the fact that I'm in them all. The fact that my dog was hit by a car when I was a kid combined with the fact that I just stubbed my toe combined with the fact that I hate olives combined with the fact that I've expereinced some things people would deem supernatural.... the list goes on forever, as it does with everyone, and doesn't seem to point to any one fact, and certainly hasn't helped my soul.
They are experiences, I've learned from them or not, and I simply build from them and learn how to handle others, or not.
To believe in the soul requires faith.... there's no concrete proof, never has been, probably never will be. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just saying that I can't take that leap.
[/reply]

There is nothing supernatural about the circumstances you mentioned. They are life experiences. When you have seen eyes come into eye sockets, legs grow, crippled people walk, and sterile people conceive - it is easier to believe in somehting you cant explain.

The soul is made up of your mind will and emotions. A proven fact acknowledged by medical profession, psychiatry profession and therapy profession. Most of which do not profess to do their job by faith, but by knowledge and intellect.

We dony beleive in the soul, we believe in faith. THe soul is a fact (doesnt require faith). What you can do naturally, you do, what you cant do naturally you require a miracle, which is the currency is faith.

Intellect does not explain faith, it reasons it. Faith believes without any evidence. However when the evidence does come it encourages greater faith.

W&D
[/reply]
There's no concrete evidence pointing to a soul... it has to be taken on faith.
Human willpower indicates that human's are badasses... dogs have willpower, too.
There's no doubt that intellegence can be used to provide a theory of the soul... and there's no doubt that it can be used to do the opposite.

I'm cynical, if you can't tell, so this faith issue isn't likely to be resolved with me, until I'm willing to take a blind leap of faith.

Thank you VERY much for sharing...I usually hate long posts but I found this VERY interesting.

I am about to read the Da Vinci Code so I was interested when I read the first few lines.

Man I wish I could have seen what went on with the priest and your friend for those couple days...now that would have been amazing I bet

yeah, usually they do them at hospitals... this was in a house with highered staff. none of us were allowed in there... outside of the ritual of reading from the bible, holy water, etc, i have no idea what happened.

he was scared up, but i dont think from the priests. the nurses took their job seriusly, and would have probably called the police.

it remains strange.... look up exorcism stuff online. itll scare the shit outta you.

# The Presence: The exorcist and his assistants become aware of an alien feeling or entity.
# : Attempts or actions of the evil spirit appear to be the victim's. The exorcist's first job is to break this Pretense and find out whom the demon really is. Gaining the entity's name is most important.
# Breakpoint: The moment when the Devil's Pretense finally collapses. This is usually a moment of complete pandemonium. There evolves a scene of panic and confusion, accompanied by a crescendo of abuse, horrible sights, noises, and odors. The Devil then turns on the victim, speaking of the person in the third person instead of as itself.
# The Voice: Also a sign the Breakpoint, the Voice (of the demon) becomes "inordinately disturbing and humanly distressing babble." The demon's voices must be silenced for the exorcism to proceed.
# The Clash: As the Voices die out there is both a spiritual and physical pressure. The demon has collided with the "will of the Kingdom." The exorcist is now in direct battle with the demon, urging the entity to reveal more information about itself so it can be controlled. As previously mentioned, there is a connection between the entity and the victim's resident. The entity wants a place to be in, or it must return to Hell. An existence out of Hell is what the Devil or demon is fighting for.
# Expulsion: In the supreme triumph of God's will, the demon or spirit leaves in the name of Jesus. All present feel the Presence dissipates, occasionally with receding noises and voices. The victim may remember the ordeal or may not recall anything that has happened.

Found this pic when I googled it

TIIIIG OLE BIIITIES

that doesnt look very acurate