RIP Mr. Hoffman

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Originally posted by Lia

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Taking drugs under a Doctors care is entirely different than buying them on the street. On the street you don't know the strength, or the purity of the substance.

You ingest drugs every day, most not prescribed by a physician, and you've got scores more coursing through your bloodstream and neuronal synapses every moment of every day. Alcohol is a drug. Aspirin is a drug. Caffeine is a drug. Sugar is a drug. Insulin is a drug which your own body produces in response to sugar intake. Dopamine, epinephrine (adrenalin), estrogen, testosterone, etc. The list goes on an on.

I'm sorry but I can"t feel sorry for those who die of drug overdose.. they know the risks before they start, you can say all you want about addiction etc, the problem is these people have way more money then brains as we see by the constant issues like this.. one day someone might figure it out, but I doubt that will happen in my lifetime

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Originally posted by carney456

I'm sorry but I can"t feel sorry for those who die of drug overdose.. they know the risks before they start, you can say all you want about addiction etc, the problem is these people have way more money then brains as we see by the constant issues like this.. one day someone might figure it out, but I doubt that will happen in my lifetime

Well said Carney, that was essentially my point as well. I'm just a bit tired of people glorifying these types who take no personal responsibility.

Quote:

Originally posted by carney456

I'm sorry but I can"t feel sorry for those who die of drug overdose.. they know the risks before they start, you can say all you want about addiction etc, the problem is these people have way more money then brains as we see by the constant issues like this.. one day someone might figure it out, but I doubt that will happen in my lifetime

so you're saying poor people never overdose

Almost everyone has an addictive personality to some extent. Some choose drugs, some choose booze, others choose food, and still others choose TV, Internet, Porn, Working out, Adrenaline, or Shopping. So before you say "addicts have no self control" have a look in the mirror first.

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Originally posted by DEMO

Some antidepressants have the same withdrawal effects as heroin also.

The wife is trying to get off cymbalta, she's been on it for 2 years, we've made 2 trips to the hospital because of horrible withdrawal symptoms, shaking, blurry vision, headaches, nausea, vomiting, I could go on, but I won't. My point, like Davey, even if prescribed by a doctor, your aren't assured to not have drug problems.

Side note, cymbalta is FUCKING EVIL, my advice for anyone with depression issues, see a good therapist and stay the fuck away from antidepressant drugs!!!

Wow, I had no idea that Cymbalta had addictive like withdrawal symptoms. I've taken a few different anti-depressants over the years and never experienced anything like that, about the most most serious side effects I encountered was anxiety, a wonky period, and zero sex drive. However, then with Ambien added to help me sleep, it just gave me a very weird sex drive.

Yeah, and there is nothing, stating how to stop taking that shit, it's like the drug manufacturers expect people to stay on that shit forever. If I could, I'd beat the living shit outta whoever came up with this shit!!!

Its funny how my RIP for a talented actor thread has turned into this

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Originally posted by waywardson

Its funny how my RIP for a talented actor thread has turned into this

Many people won't let an opportunity to judge others as being in some way inferior to themselves go wasted.

no, I am not saying only rich overdose, I am saying I am sick of having to listen to the media make a big deal out of these people we call "stars" who have way too much money, lots of bad habits, then try to live this unrealistic life as if nothing is wrong. The first time they tried drugs, they knew it was wrong, unfortunately they have way too much money which fuels the bad habits . Lots of poor people die from drugs, but the cost of their habit also alters their lives, for "stars" it's just a game. Seemingly 5-6 "stars" a year die, the media makes a big thing about it, but for me, they knew the risks kept going in and bought their way out of this life. I say anybody in Hollywood or sports gets caught with drugs, nobody give them another job in movies or entertainment again ever. The message will be clear fast, if you want to be rich and famous, you need to act like someone the rest of us can look up to. If they want to do drugs, have a god life, but fame and fortune will be gone.We all have addictions, mine is porn, can't die from that.. I am an ex pro athlete, I have lots of money, never spent one cent on drugs. I knew it was wrong, dangerous and bad for my health. It was openly available when I played 20 years ago, I made an educated decision not to do it and wreck my life. These people need to get their head out of the sand, and figure it out before they buy themselves out of this life. Unfortunately their handlers and people surrounding them tell them they are great, they can't see past the haze, think they are above us, and poofff.. another star dead of drugs

so you're saying poor people never overdose[/reply]

Here's an article I found about Hoffman, addiction, and the media reaction to it: http://www.amcircus.com/arts/on-the-death-of-philip-seymour-hoffman.html

A few excerpts:

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I can hear the faint sibilance of hissing, by people who utterly despise a stranger for overdosing on illegal drugs. Hoffman didn't die the right way; he died contemptibly, in the eyes of America, and this was expressed in a million sleazy slimy little ways by the commentariat.

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What is surprising—what is astonishing—is that for twenty-three years, an addict had his daily death sentence reprieved, through means he himself could not entirely divine. He had gifts, and in the light of day, honed those gifts. He saw himself forming a richer life than he had known the day before, and as an artist, shared it with other people, for little reason other than the satisfaction of knowing he had expressed some truth well.

Philip Seymour Hoffman was an immensely talented actor; he had a disease. He died of that disease. But don't ever say he isn't enduring, now.

The media may portray actors as role models but they aren't really anyone to be admired, they play a character and engage (as we do) in an element of make-believe. Role models are the doctors, nurses etc that maintain society, and do so without public acclaim. Philip Seymour Hoffman was a great actor but ultimately a flawed human, just like most of us. Perhaps he should be just remembered as an entertainer and a life wasted but otherwise left in peace.

Comparing Heroin to Prescription drugs or alcohol etc is just crazy. I think the sellers of it know better than to be users. One time use can be addictive. Well known deadly drug. I can't think of any reason for anyone to even try Heroin except that they are bored silly. I have been hearing and reading about Heroin over doses since I was a kid. If you care about your family, loved ones and yourself --never try this drug!. There is no reason to try it. It has no redeeming value. Same with Cocaine. Buying this crap keeps the deadly drug Cartels and other gangsters in business. You are helping support Murder Incorporated. Gangs that make many live in fear of their lives. I find it very hard to sympathize with people that buy this crap for reasons I stated. Your choice. Soon the USA will look like Mexico as very rich Cartels take over. Many Americans support this take over with buying their product. IMO

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Originally posted by NightCruiser

Comparing Heroin to Prescription drugs or alcohol etc is just crazy. I think the sellers of it know better than to be users. One time use can be addictive. Well known deadly drug. I can't think of any reason for anyone to even try Heroin except that they are bored silly. I have been hearing and reading about Heroin over doses since I was a kid. If you care about your family, loved ones and yourself --never try this drug!. There is no reason to try it. It has no redeeming value. Same with Cocaine. Buying this crap keeps the deadly drug Cartels and other gangsters in business. You are helping support Murder Incorporated. Gangs that make many live in fear of their lives. I find it very hard to sympathize with people that buy this crap for reasons I stated. Your choice. Soon the USA will look like Mexico as very rich Cartels take over. Many Americans support this take over with buying their product. IMO

Did you know cigarettes have the same addiction and destruction value as cocaine ? Alcohol is a bit below but not that far. And yet both are legal (because they are part of the society history) where other drugs with much less danger are forbidden. Alcohol and cigarette both keep making their companies rich despite the fact they destroy many lives (users or not). The only difference with the cartels are that they are doing that legally and are supported by the society (yes they don't kill to make their business, but their lobby is capable of many things to keep selling).

As for the redeeming factor, most drugs have some effect and that's what users seek. Cocaine is primarily used for a cognitive and energy boost (a bit like coffee) and heroin for the trip it gives you. I must agree with you that you shouldn't try some of them (especially heroin) because it's most likely a deadly trap but you can't deny that fact.

So no, it's not "crazy" to compare those drugs with legal ones.

rip... he was talented and on of my favourites actors...

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Originally posted by NightCruiser

Comparing Heroin to Prescription drugs or alcohol etc is just crazy.

Wrong. As a matter of fact many prescription pain killers fall into the exact same category as heroin. They are both opiates. Some of the strongest forms of pain drugs are essentially, synthetic heroin.

Also, yes, people buying drugs are supporting drug cartels. Lets stop and think exactly why drug cartels exist. There is a tremendous demand for substances the United States government has deemed "unhealthy and deadly". Never mind the fact that alcohol and tobacco kill more people than all "illegal" drugs and they're totally legal in all fifty states. Someone, a long time ago though that by making something illegal, people would stop doing it. It has not worked. Drugs are readily available to anyone who wants them and the legality isn't stopping anybody who wants to do drugs from doing them. All the cartel and the drug gangs are doing is filling a void in a very popular marketplace. They are making billions and fighting violent wars and killing innocent people all for the chance to sell more drugs in America. If drugs were not illegal, there'd be no cartel. They would be produced in safe, clean environments, not cut with household chemicals (like most street drugs) and sold through distributors. Just like alcohol. The reason prohibition of alcohol ended was because illegal gangs were selling dangerous and poorly concocted batches of alcohol and fighting violent turf wars. People didn't stop drinking because alcohol was outlawed. They just bought it from criminals instead. The US has finally started to wise up on the issue with certain states allowing for medical marijuana sales and some completely legalizing it. Legalized marijuana creates a whole new industry from farmers to clerks at dispensaries. Given the option of purchasing marijuana at a dispensary, people no longer have to buy from drug dealers and illegal cartels. The proceeds from marijuana sales are taxed much in the same way alcohol and tobacco are, putting more money in to the system. It's win-win. Let's be honest. People who do drugs are going to whether they're legal or not. I'm not going to go start smoking crack just because it became legal, are you?

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Originally posted by Davey45

People who do drugs are going to whether they're legal or not. I'm not going to go start smoking crack just because it became legal, are you?

You are right and in fact, it's quite the opposite. A big part of people doing drugs do it because it's something forbidden and thus "cool" (mainly young people). So when something like that is legalized, the only people who are going to try it are those interested by its effect (and this kind of people also tend to take some info about the drug before taking it).
It happened in Portugal for example where lots of drug were totally legalized and it's now the country with the lowest drug consumption in Europe.
Also, when something is legalized, its distribution network and the violence associated with it disappears.

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Originally posted by omuh

...
. A big part of people doing drugs do it because it's something forbidden and thus "cool" (mainly young people). So when something like that is legalized, the only people who are going to try it are those interested by its effect (and this kind of people also tend to take some info about the drug before taking it).

On a similar note, poor education involving drugs and their effects leads younger people to sometimes believe "since marijuana didn't kill me or ruin my life, everything they've taught me about drugs is wrong. I guess I'll give cocaine a shot." In the United States, drug education does not include the various spectrum of drugs and their effects. It is more along the lines of "Just Say No". Don't do drugs, they're all bad and they'll all kill you. The typical 14 year old kid has heard "Just Say NO" about 10,000 times since he started grade school but when he or his friends try marijuana, they realize it's mostly harmless. It leads to a nonchalant attitude towards other drugs. The only way I found out the effects of a lot of drugs was to either try them or witness somebody else on them. When I saw someone all jacked up on cocaine, it really turned me off to the idea of trying it. Same with opiates. Parents and teachers need to be a lot more frank with kids these days and really discuss drugs in a more detailed manner than "just say no".

Exactly, Lia. You seem like a reasonably intelligent person. "Just say no" didn't stop you from experimenting. How do you think it would work for someone who's maybe not quite as smart or maybe is a bit more of a risk taker? I think a true education on the real effects of drugs is needed sorely for today's youth. I would recommend this book to anyone who is interested in taking a scientific look at the effects of drugs both legal and illegal.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Drugs-Without-Minimising-Harms-Illegal/dp/1906860165

edit: Ok for some reason, I linked the UK version of amazon here but you can see the book.

Thanks for the link Davey. I have 2, 12 year old boys and the wife is checking that book out now.