Party in the Middle East: The Israeli & Palestinian thread

Constructive conversation only.

I'm starting this thread because the US presidential election thread has gotten severely derailed. Now, we're all adults so act accordingly. There are to be no insults, to other posters or religious groups, thrown around in this thread. Keep it civil and I won't have to delete your posts.

Quote:

Originally posted by Southernboy10

No I don't Leon. My info is from direct experience, personal accounts told to me first hand PLUS a whole load of academically peer reviewed material from a variety of sources. It may be inconvenient but inaccurate it isn't.

I was trying to avoid directing my points at your personal perceptions as you live in Israel and understandably have a vested interest, but you should also consider that your earlier observation about, "most of it (Palestine)was barren land" is both off the point entirely and inaccurate too. Almost 1 million Palestinians were driven off what is now occupied land they had inhabited for over 2000 years. However this is the, "should Israel exist argument," which is another altogether. What I am saying is that the mess - whoever owns it - needs a resolution before the Middle East can become a stable area. Any other country, besides Israel, that ignored the huge list of UN resolutions that it does would be pilloried (or worse - see Iraq) for doing so. It is US support that prevents more serious action against Israel and it doesn't even help many Israelis who also want this sorted out in a peaceful manner so everyone can simply get on living normal lives like we lucky people in the west.

I would be very interested to hear about your first hand experiences from visiting Gaza & the other occupied territories. What I & others I know have seen there fills me with despair.

Quote:

Originally posted by 11111112

Israel, in my opinion, has a right to exist. Palestine has that same right. It is not a very big piece of land we are talking about here. Israel needs to show some good faith and tell their settlers that they are on their own if they don't return. Once they have left the settlements, Israel should announce to every media source in the world that if they are attacked they will respond with force EVERY SINGLE TIME. Responses will be with precision weapons and aimed at those attacking them. If Israel continues to be attacked with rockets it should steadily increase force until the Palestinians turn on their own domestic terrorists.

Israel cannot bulldoze the homes of innocent Palestinians. That is just plain cowardice. If the fucking settlers would just abandon those settlements 80% of the problem is instantly cured. How many fucking people have to do so you can live in some random fucking village? It's not like you're even spreading religion like most "settlers" do. Hell, no Jews are going to convert Muslims in the middle east. What is the point of the villages? Don't give me "we have the right to live there." That is ridiculous. Jews wouldn't be in the middle east if the U.S. and Britain didn't give them their country.

Quote:

Originally posted by leon2006

so good to see people who tallk on the internet know the facts before they write stuff.

israel only bulldoze homes of terorists who killed inocnet people, and not "poor Palestinians".

suicde bombers dont get privlegs.

Quote:

Originally posted by marcell1001

I lived in israel for a whilst and palestinians are anything BUT innocent!

Quote:

Originally posted by 1111111112

[reply=leon2006]
...so good to see people who tallk on the internet know the facts before they write stuff.

israel only bulldoze homes of terorists who killed inocnet people, and not "poor Palestinians".

suicde bombers dont get privlegs.

Haha, come on man. They bulldoze entire towns. If they were terrorists why not just arrest and incarcerate them.

Your country isn't always right, man. I have personally seen film of Israel bulldozing homes in armored bulldozers to make room for walls, not to make a terrorist homeless.

[/reply]

Quote:

Originally posted by 1111111112

[reply=marcel1001]
I lived in israel for a whilst and palestinians are anything BUT innocent!

Just like any other people in the world, most of the Palestinians are good people who just want to live in peace. There are always bad apples that spoil it for everyone, my country has their fair share, but most of us just want to be left alone.
[/reply]

Quote:

Originally posted by leon2006

[reply=11111111112]

...

Haha, come on man. They bulldoze entire towns. If they were terrorists why not just arrest and incarcerate them.

Your country isn't always right, man. I have personally seen film of Israel bulldozing homes in armored bulldozers to make room for walls, not to make a terrorist homeless.



Just like any other people in the world, most of the Palestinians are good people who just want to live in peace. There are always bad apples that spoil it for everyone, my country has their fair share, but most of us just want to be left alone.

1 movies can be alterd my smart friend,and the wall is to prevent peace loving bobmers from spreading the love.

2 granted not all of them are bad but the numbers are high,your country has it share fare?

first of all why dont you show where you really from? (hint:the u.s)

and second of all your country get to choose which wars to go to so be glad you are not forced to go to wars and instead choose to go.

its a shame people let something unproven and hokey like religion divide them
it would be nice to see these people and any and all people leave the ancient mythology
in the past and come to grips with the problems of the now and deal with it like one race
and forget the silly divisions they have put in place with their tales of fictional gods and saviors

Quote:

Originally posted by 11111111112

...

Israel, in my opinion, has a right to exist. Palestine has that same right.

Good. Now get the Palestinians (and surrounding Arab States) to agree with you. I believe that will be the sticking point.

Quote:

Originally posted by 1111111111111112

It is not a very big piece of land we are talking about here. Israel needs to show some good faith and tell their settlers that they are on their own if they don't return. Once they have left the settlements, Israel should announce to every media source in the world that if they are attacked they will respond with force EVERY SINGLE TIME. Responses will be with precision weapons and aimed at those attacking them. If Israel continues to be attacked with rockets it should steadily increase force until the Palestinians turn on their own domestic terrorists.

Again, this is all good in theory, but since it is the stance of many of the Arabs, both Palestinian and other, that Israel doesn't have the right to exist, just leaving the settlements isn't going to appease them.

Quote:

Originally posted by 111111111112=3

Israel cannot bulldoze the homes of innocent Palestinians. That is just plain cowardice. If the fucking settlers would just abandon those settlements 80% of the problem is instantly cured. How many fucking people have to do so you can live in some random fucking village? It's not like you're even spreading religion like most "settlers" do. Hell, no Jews are going to convert Muslims in the middle east. What is the point of the villages? Don't give me "we have the right to live there." That is ridiculous.

I disagree that '80% of the problem' would be instantly cured.

Quote:

Originally posted by 1111111112

Jews wouldn't be in the middle east if the U.S. and Britain didn't give them their country.

Hrm. I think they might disagree with you on this one too. They have that whole "we have the right to be here as it was laid forth in the Old Testament" argument going for them.

Btw, they were emigrating to the middle east long before 1947's UN resolution 181. The BILU and other Jews were leaving Europe and Russia in large numbers in the late 19th century due to the May Laws and general antisemitic sentiment arising in those countries.

Quote:

Originally posted by efilnikufesin

its a shame people let something unproven and hokey like religion divide them
it would be nice to see these people and any and all people leave the ancient mythology
in the past and come to grips with the problems of the now and deal with it like one race
and forget the silly divisions they have put in place with their tales of fictional gods and saviors

That is a very simplistic and naive statement. Many wars have had nothing to do with religion at all. Man can find any excuse to wage war on another man from control, money and resources to which side of a line on a map you were born on.

Now I don't remember all of my Middle East studies from college but I'm pretty sure the surrounding countries were mainly responsible for getting Palestine (with those countries help) to attack Israel way back when and Palestine was the one that paid the price. I don't know of an easy way to end this problem but it would probably be a whole lot easier if the surrounding countries would stop interfering.

I'm keeping the hell out of this!














You're welcome.

religon dont play a role on our side,on the other side,every scum make up new rules and tell the lower iq suiscde bombers that killing inocent children and women will make his god happy and will give him 7 virgins.

haters can hate all they want cuse they love to hate,isreal provide food water and elctric power to gaza EVEN tough they fire rockets at israel,it is easy to any prick to hide behind a keyborad and tallk big about a small country, a small country that won confilcts agianst massive armys and handed the enmys ass to them on a plate.

however, there are always two sides. i don't know a lot about politics, culture and past in the middle east.
but for sure: i don't like / and we don't need people killing other people! its not only middle east, its everywhere - and i fucking don't understand!!!!!


live in peace! Shalom! salaam! sliem! Shlomo! שָׁלוֹם

Quote:

Originally posted by leon2006

...

1 movies can be alterd my smart friend,and the wall is to prevent peace loving bobmers from spreading the love.

2 granted not all of them are bad but the numbers are high,your country has it share fare?

first of all why dont you show where you really from? (hint:the u.s)

and second of all your country get to choose which wars to go to so be glad you are not forced to go to wars and instead choose to go.

Movies can be altered? I am talking about American journalists. Are you telling me that Israel has never bulldozed the house of an innocent person? If you tell me that you're on serious drugs and you need to put down the kool-aid.

My country gets to "choose" which wars to fight? Look up 9-11 on your computer. It was suicide bombings just like they see in your country but on a massive scale. We weren't hunting Muslim extremists, they gave us no choice.

Quote:

Originally posted by EricLindros

Hrm. I think they might disagree with you on this one too. They have that whole "we have the right to be here as it was laid forth in the Old Testament" argument going for them.

Btw, they were emigrating to the middle east long before 1947's UN resolution 181. The BILU and other Jews were leaving Europe and Russia in large numbers in the late 19th century due to the May Laws and general antisemitic sentiment arising in those countries.

Yeah I don't think you quite understood what I meant. I am sure Jews would be in the Middle East but Israel would not exist if the U.S. and Britain gave it the right to exist. We won the war and with the winner comes the spoils. We gave our friends, our Messiah's chosen people, their own country.

Quote:

Originally posted by leon2006

haters can hate all they want cuse they love to hate,isreal provide food water and elctric power to gaza EVEN tough they fire rockets at israel,it is easy to any prick to hide behind a keyborad and tallk big about a small country, a small country that won confilcts agianst massive armys and handed the enmys ass to them on a plate.

First, I don't hate Israel in any way.

The rockets are not sanctioned government rockets. They are morons who got their hands on a decent piece of ammunition. What I am saying is most people are unwilling to punish an entire people for a few morons. Because what does that do? Create more people who hate you. Trust me, my country is wonderful at doing this.

If you want people to fear you, which in this case it is the best you can do, you have to respond with overwhelming force. Innocent people have to die. You can't pussy foot around. Trust me, my country is HOPEFULLY learning this too. Innocent people die in war. You don't try to kill innocent people but collateral damage has occured in every major war. Vietnam changed this perception for the U.S. We saw body bags and Americans getting killed. Then the left started discussing innocent people on the other side. No liberals gave a shit about all the innocent Germans and Italians we killed, but today they care. So they force our government and military to fight a war that is "clean" where no civilians are ever killed. It's bullshit and it never works.

Israel has a horrible habit of going back and forth. They raid settlements of Israelis and pull them back to Israel but then get laxed weeks later and let them go back. They attack a Palestinian village for shooting a missle at Israel but by then the people who fired the missle are long gone and now you're just chasing everyday people and bulldozing their houses. That shit doesn't work.

You either have to put up with rockets and your people getting killed or respond with overwhelming force. As much as I hate to say it, I am pro overwhelming force for my country. When innocent people get scared they turn on the terrorists living in their cities. They hunt them and capture them so that they can be left alone.


That's my point with my previous message, most people want peace and to be left alone.

9-11 is a diffrent story.

i was tallking about other older wars,you seem to think of yourself of a genius of some sort and that all others dont know history or dont know jack.

we dont hunt Muslim extremists too,but if you gonna try hurting inoccent cavilians you better prepare yourself a good grave.

the u.s and the u.k invaded and slaved other countrys back in the day,but i guess you only picking on the small countrys.

you mostly come to wbw to enter to this spesific topics,you are a blind hater who love to hate,if you really knew anything you would have known that israel actully treat plastines better then the close arab nations some times,but like i said,the internet give cowards like you the abilty to hide behind a keyborad and tallk big about stuff they know jack of.

Quote:

Originally posted by leon2006

9-11 is a diffrent story.

i was tallking about other older wars,you seem to think of yourself of a genius of some sort and that all others dont know history or dont know jack.

we dont hunt Muslim extremists too,but if you gonna try hurting inoccent cavilians you better prepare yourself a good grave.

the u.s and the u.k invaded and slaved other countrys back in the day,but i guess you only picking on the small countrys.

you mostly come to wbw to enter to this spesific topics,you are a blind hater who love to hate,if you really knew anything you would have known that israel actully treat plastines better then the close arab nations some times,but like i said,the internet give cowards like you the abilty to hide behind a keyborad and tallk big about stuff they know jack of.

I am sorry that you are resorting to personal attacks. That's sad. But I will still treat you with respect and respond to everything that is not an attack on my character.

"Older" wars? You mean WWII and before? Because after WWII we helped you create your country. We got to pick our wars? We had to enter WWII or the French would be speaking German and the people in Omaha, Nebraska would be speaking Japanese. We were attacked by Japan so we went to war. Thankfully we did or Israel would never have existed, right?

The U.S. "invaded and enslaved" other countries? After WWII we invaded countries like Korea, Vietnam and Iraq, but we never enslaved anyone. I would love to hear who we enslaved, please let me know.

I understand you believe I am a "coward" for speaking my mind and saying Palestine has a right to exist and that Israeli settlers should go back to their country, but I just want peace. Like I said before, most people just want peace and to be left alone. I should also point out that this "coward" had two grandfathers who fought in WWII, both of which received purple hearts.

I have done many tours of duty in the middle east-Lebanon,Syria- & travelled many times into Israel as a "tourist",there is a lot of hatred evident-on both sides-which i found to be very dis-heartening,coming from a country that has had a very troubled past(& present,i might add),i hope to return someday as an official tourist,& rekindle some of the friendships that were forged,on both sides.

I"d just to add,Ahavet shalom & Salaam alaikum,to all.

Quote:

Originally posted by 11111111112

...

I am sorry that you are resorting to personal attacks. That's sad. But I will still treat you with respect and respond to everything that is not an attack on my character.

"Older" wars? You mean WWII and before? Because after WWII we helped you create your country. We got to pick our wars? We had to enter WWII or the French would be speaking German and the people in Omaha, Nebraska would be speaking Japanese. We were attacked by Japan so we went to war. Thankfully we did or Israel would never have existed, right?

The U.S. "invaded and enslaved" other countries? After WWII we invaded countries like Korea, Vietnam and Iraq, but we never enslaved anyone. I would love to hear who we enslaved, please let me know.

I understand you believe I am a "coward" for speaking my mind and saying Palestine has a right to exist and that Israeli settlers should go back to their country, but I just want peace. Like I said before, most people just want peace and to be left alone. I should also point out that this "coward" had two grandfathers who fought in WWII, both of which received purple hearts.

haha trust me i didnt even tought about personal atack.

im tallkinng post ww2 and you helpd french and the u.k to stop the scums of the earth,for that the world thanked you,and every good men did thank you and will never forget the brave soldires who helpd free the world.

japan attacked you yes of course,in response to pearl harbor YOU are the ONLY (hopefuly forver) one who used atom bombs.

if you didnt fight japan we wouldnt exsist? jews ware here long before plastines set foot here,thing is,the world has many loosers who hate people who are diffrent from them and thus did horibble things to jews and then the jews had to leave isreal,but we ware there before some people starting to claim it as there own.

white rich americans going to africa and doing lots of bad stuff is what you forgeting.


it is nice that you want peace but this is not your issue so stay out of it,you have peace so let others take care of there own issues.

i call you a coward cuse you make it seem like you dont go to either side while it is clearly not the case.

and as for your story about the meadles,yhea well everyone can tell storys online.

if it was really the case the your grandparntes could have told you abot the true nature of some people on tunis and other places.


never enslaved anyone? that's funny,americans killing indians and taking lands from them,killing black people in tx,kkk in tx, neo nazis in florida,lots of years slavery for black people and etc.

and you got the nerves to tallk about others,double faced coward.

u.s has it share fair of ugly history but you rather keep it in the dark and not tallking about it.

you can say you are this and that,but we cannot know if it is real or bs,and personaly dont care for you to try and prove it.

internet made you a persona which you can claim you are everything and nothing at the same time.

israel did lots of good stuff to the u.s but since i canrt know who you really are and what is your game you wont care,you could be a person who hate the u.s or israel and dont wont them to benift each other.

Quote:

Originally posted by leon2006

if you didnt fight japan we wouldnt exsist? jews ware here long before plastines set foot here,thing is,the world has many loosers who hate people who are diffrent from them and thus did horibble things to jews and then the jews had to leave isreal,but we ware there before some people starting to claim it as there own.

I said if we didn't fight in WWII your COUNTRY wouldn't exist. We had Jews storming the beach at Normandy. They were Americans and their religion happened to be Judaism.

Quote:

Originally posted by leon2006

white rich americans going to africa and doing lots of bad stuff is what you forgeting.

Surely you aren't suggesting that any Americans ever went to Africa and enslaved Africans to bring to America. If that is your suggestion than you need to read some history books. The Portugese had the market cornered in that department. After the Middle Passage slaves ended up in Cuba. Many of those came to the U.S. after that, but they also went to Brazil and many Carribean territories (French, Dutch and British to name a few). Just about every European country has had African slaves. You can't put that on Americans, we came into that game REALLY LATE.

Quote:

Originally posted by leon2006

and as for your story about the meadles,yhea well everyone can tell storys online.

Purple Hearts aren't truly medals, although some might see them that way. American military personnel are given Purple Hearts when they are wounded in combat. Both of my grandparents were seriously wounded in WWII. One got better and re-enlisted and the other went home and had problems for the rest of his short life.

Quote:

Originally posted by leon2006

never enslaved anyone? that's funny,americans killing indians and taking lands from them,killing black people in tx,kkk in tx, neo nazis in florida,lots of years slavery for black people and etc.

We never enslaved Native Americans. We did some bad shit to them but they were never slaves. Oh, and if you're bringing up African slavery again, than talk to the entire world about that one... Even Africa! They ALL had slaves.

If you're talking about current stuff, you are getting a lot of bad information. The last person I recall being killed by a racist was in Jasper, TX in the 1990's. It wasn't the clan, it was one racist. That happens anywhere in the world. Crazy people kill good people, they always have and they always will.

Quote:

Originally posted by leon2006

and you got the nerves to tallk about others,double faced coward.

Sure I have the nerve to talk about Israel and how they have mismanaged this whole issue in the last 6 decades. I am also talking about Palestinians and how they are fucked 6 ways to Tuesday.

Quote:

Originally posted by leon2006

internet made you a persona which you can claim you are everything and nothing at the same time.

israel did lots of good stuff to the u.s but since i canrt know who you really are and what is your game you wont care,you could be a person who hate the u.s or israel and dont wont them to benift each other.

I haven't claimed anything about myself. What are you talking about? I am talking about Israel and Palestine. What the fuck are you talking about? Your little tangents need to come under control.

ONCE AGAIN, I have nothing against Israel. I believe my country should protect Israel in the event that a Middle Eastern country threatens its existance. If Iran decided to fire missles at Israel, we would be there to fix that fucking mess. You may send a couple of fighter jets to bomb a facility, but the reason Israel exists safely from Arab countries is because those Arab countries are scared to death of what we would do to them if they fuck with you.

That's reality. The days of 6 day wars are over. If the Arab world wanted Israel they could have it, but the reason they can't take it is because Israel's big brothers, the Americans and the British, would never let that happen. So tonight, rest easy, my country has your back.