Give me everything for free...

*removes soapbox from thread*

As for music/movies, it is mainly becuase the prices are ridiculous and they won't change their business model. I normally only download mp3 of songs I have on tape or record as I feel that I deserve to be able to do that and for movies it is normally the ones I have on VHS but want to get a disc of. I don't feel that is stealing. If I download a movie I don't own, I will buy it if I like it and if not I normally just delete it.

I do download software but it is normally ones I already own and just want the hack/crack so I don't have to insert the CD all of the time or so I don't have to activate the software (I hate providing any info to the bastards just to use something I bought). I also use this as a trialware for software that has no trial version or the trial version is seriously limited in features.

Quote:

Originally posted by rocknthefreewor

I normally only download mp3 of songs I have on tape or record as I feel that I deserve to be able to do that and for movies it is normally the ones I have on VHS but want to get a disc of. I don't feel that is stealing.

Sorry dude, but you, (or I), don't DESERVE jack shit! You bought what you bought, which doesn't include the options for free format upgrades. No one asked if you "feel that it is stealing". It is stealing.

Quote:

Originally posted by rocknthefreewor

If I download a movie I don't own, I will buy it if I like it and if not I normally just delete it.

So I guess it's OK to go to Best buy and take what you want, and return it if it sucks.

I don't really care what you do, go ahead and steal everything! Just stop telling yourself, "I'm not really a thief because..." You steal 1's and 0's. You're a petty thief. Whatever!

Yes, someone can own a sequence of "0's and 1's" as you put it, somebody put serious labor into the logic that created that piece of software, or music, or book, whatever. The fact that its converted into a sequence of 1's and 0's is just a means to an end, to create it in digital form. It just like Ford saying "I own all these atoms that made your mustang"... which they most certaintly do, and then your allowed to purchase them =) (interesting way to put it lol).

I also don't see why everything should be public domain, where does that mentality come from? I suppose if you mean in 20 years, software on the market now will be deemed 'public domain' I suppose it is possible if the company deems it appropriate or some of them go belly up. I just don't see how companies and people are suppossed to thrive if they're products are sold extremely cheap or free, whats the incentive to work hard if you can't make a decent profit or on the flip side, everything is given to you?

"As for music/movies, it is mainly becuase the prices are ridiculous and they won't change their business model"

Again this is just an excuse, it doesn't make it any more right. Furthermore, music and movie are not things anybody really needs. The fact that they jack up the prices only proves that the market is clearly willing to bear the expense (the people that actually buy these things). I buy my music, and I've never really found $15-%18 for a CD to be that expensive. With regards to movies, I rarely buy them cause I realize I rarely watch the ones I buy, so I've become picky about them.

(Furthermore as a sidenote with regards to movies, they are planning on changing the format yet again to HDVD or BlueRay DVD, which means new players or upgrades to existing players. This kind of thing drives me nuts cause I figured when DVD's came out, they'd be around for a good long while, well apparently thats not the case, so now I'm thinking, why buy the damn things anymore).

Thing is, if something is too high-priced, then don't buy it, if enough people just didn't buy the overprice products the companies would be forced to lower their prices. As another said, if software is too expensive and $300 is just too much for an OS, then there is always Macs (not sure of their costs) or linux which is free unless you need tech. support. Don't forget their are dozens of other OS's out there as well.

The real crux of this debate is the difference between people who would rather work for themselves versus people that feel entitled to be given things for free, this goes well beyond music, movies, books and software however.

*moved to software forum*

ill let kanzen mod this one for distraughtson

Quote:

Originally posted by tommo33i

I previously had a dodgy copy on a previous computer but was pee'd off with not being able to get the Windows updates

Enable auto update. You wont get the optional updates, but it will D/L the security updates.

Quote:

Originally posted by phredbull

Sorry dude, but you, (or I), don't DESERVE jack shit! You bought what you bought, which doesn't include the options for free format upgrades. No one asked if you "feel that it is stealing". It is stealing.

So I guess it's OK to go to Best buy and take what you want, and return it if it sucks.

I don't really care what you do, go ahead and steal everything! Just stop telling yourself, "I'm not really a thief because..." You steal 1's and 0's. You're a petty thief. Whatever!

On the format upgrade, I can do the work myself and copy it over to digital, I just find it easier to let someone else do the work. Would it not be stealing if I owned it on CD? Or maybe I bought it from a legal download site and it corrupted and would not let me dl it again.

I never said I wasn't stealing the movies. But I will disagree on the dl of mp3 when you already own the song. By your way of thinking, I can't copy from CD to my mp3 player because it is a different format (don't play that "they are both digital" crap because the formats are different).

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

I'm just curious what is going on lately on this site, the internet and the world in general lately with regards to what can be summed up as the universal motto, 'Give me everything for free'.

Thats greed for you. Greed making the CEOs and big time executives raising prices on products. Greed killing competition. Greed alienating lawful costumers. Then you have the people that are unwilling to give into their greed.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

Seriously, digital media and the proliferation of computing makes it extremely easy for things like movies, music, books, games and software to be copied, burned and sent to others. Then when the people affected by these activities steps up to say something, people tear into them for being 'uber-money making whores' of companies, yet without them, people wouldn't have any of those very things they felt compelled to effectively just steal. There is some kind of spiteful, hateful, entitlement driven idea being fueld from somewhere in many people's heads.

Most of the stuff out there that is being pirated, in my opinion is usually garbage. Movies, music, games, and a lot of software is utter junk that was just made to make a quick buck. Then a lot of the bigger businesses practice which should be considered unethical practices of lock-in and lock-out. Take for example the RIAA. Have you seen their actions lately?

Suing grandmothers for hundreds of thousands of dollars because their grand kids listened to a song or two. How about installing rootkits and backdoors into people's machines without consent? Maybe it could be them inflating prices on music, and stiffing the little people in the process. Guess what, most musicians don't make jack off their CD sales. Want to know who gets the big bucks? The executives.

If you want people to think of you as a good business you have to be one. You have to be fair and good to the costumer. You have to work hard and produce something people will gladly give money for. Don't sit there and cut off people and ruin what kind of mental image is that? Who would you hand your money to? A company that has a history of installing malicious items on your computer or limiting what you could do with your item. OR... would you give your money to a bunch of good guys who care enough about the costumers they wouldn't treat you that way?

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

Furthermore, why do so many people feel so entitled to obtaining all these things for free? I realize one person stealing from a company like Microsoft, isn't a very big deal to Microsoft, though that doesn't make it any more 'ok'. Even ten people, so what, its not a big deal, but how about 500, 1000, 10000 or more?

You don't seem to understand, lets say a ton of people steal a copy of Windows. Do you think that will really hurt Microsoft? You do realize that Microsoft purposely let Windows become readily available as warez when it fought OS/2. They wanted mind share and to get people locked in. Thats how they work. Thats why they are getting grief from everyone. Now tell me if this is fair. A CEO that rakes in 50 billion will still make money even though he doesn't really need it. But those workers who actually work on a product get shafted. Its outright absurd what the CEOs and executives pay themselves. While the little people get the crumbs, the rich gouge themselves. Buying more products from them isn't going to help the little people. They always get screwed.

Average low-end Microsoft programmer makes about $60,000. This person slaves over a computer for about 16 hours a day. Bill Gates, who is outright absurdly rich is making what that little programmer makes in a year in a week or less.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

That's a lot of lost profit for work done. Now I know Microsoft isn't necessarily hurting (or are they, I don't know i'm not an analyst), the fact is a lot of people are actively stealing, copying and burning software such as Windows, and they thinks it cool and alright to do so, always by means of some fairly lame excuse, typically thrown right back at that very company for some reason or another.

Not really. The workers get screwed anyways by the consumers. Want to know who really pays for Microsoft's products? Businesses. Microsoft is hardly from hurting, they are still bringing in an increasingly profit margin. Microsoft couldn't be happier about people stealing their stuff. It gets that stuff out and locks them into the product.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

This is frustrating to me because I make my living writing software, its whats putting food on my table and allowing me to live.

How much is your boss making? If you're so frustrated about piracy I think you should leave the industry. Hate to break it to you, but you cannot kill piracy. No matter how much effort you put into stop it there will be someone to crack it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

The same goes for any other product that is copied and stolen in mass quantities as I spoke about above, even if a single person feels its okay to steal like this, its affecting somebody.

Yeah it hurts people. No surprise. How about solving a big reason people pirate? Because the rich people are already too rich. Why can't Bill be realistic and giving up his $50 billion go into a $250,000 a year salary and give the rest back to the workers? Does he really need all that money? I surely don't see him trying to raise millions of families.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

The common excuse is "screw them, they're rich enough", but in saying that they are usually referring to Bill Gates or others in the top echelon's of the company.

Well if you cut the absurd amount of money the CEOs make and give that too the workers I'm sure people will feel a lot better about giving companies money. Instead you know what those greedy fat cats do? Instead of them taking a little nibble off their makings will gladly cut you and hundreds if not thousands of workers free for extra cash.

Seriously, why do CEOs need more than $500,000 a year? Its just an obscene waste of money and resources.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

However companies like Microsoft, Dell, Google (though most people like Google for some reason), phone companies, publishing companies, etc. are all comprised of thousands of workers.

No surprise they are comprised of many workers. It'd be hard for them not to be. Have you looked at the salaries of the top people in those companies? Many of them could easily buy a handful of 3rd world nations and bring them up. Google is an odd duck because technically they don't sell any products. They use their advertising to make money. And just for your information both top honchos at Google, taking a cue from Steve Jobs, only pay themself a single dollar a year.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

So the millions or sometimes billions of dollars companies make will often go back into the company and operating capital. The biggest cost to almost any business is the payroll. Stealing in effect hurts a lot of people potentially, especially when many people do it, which is clearly the case.

Heh. Most of the income towards payroll goes to the top CEOs, chairmen, executives, and lawyers. Again, if you want to help people have the CEOs cut out those absurd salaries.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

I personally don't see anything wrong when companies that are actively and obviously being ripped off step in and try to do something to stem the damage (wether that be requiring registration, licensing codes or changes to licensing agreements), however there is a LOT of animosity in the world towards this kind of reaction from such companies and I just don't see where its coming from, other than people are obtaining a sense of entitlement from somewhere, whats what I'm trying to figure out.

There is a difference between trying to protect your content and forcefully removing people's freedoms from things they paid for, and then on top of that invading their privacy. All that DRM thats coming into Vista? Thats a collaboration between M$, and the MPAA. The bulk of the money coming from that lock-in goes to the already rich people. Not to the hard workers.

Microsoft is actively trying to kill hardware options. They admitted it too. Thats not making those smaller companies that need profits, profit. Its cutting them out completely. http://www.boingboing.net/2006/01/30/msft_our_drm_licensi.html

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

Regardless, the end result of these activities is for digital media to be very tightly bound to the individual in some way, so that the ability to copy and give to another will be destroyed or overaly time-consuming or complex to be worth the thief's time.

A lot of pirates often will pay for a damn good source of a product. I've done it. I've actually given Adobe quite a bit of money, but well, sometimes I just can't afford those prices. Anime and mangas that I get from torrents, if I enjoy enough I actually purchase later because its a better quality than the compressed stuff online.

Now movies and music? Most of it I find to be utter crap so I don't even bother to steal it. I'm amazed how people can call "My humps" actual music. I'm amazed at how the MPAA just can't be original in anyway and just keep rehashing the same stuff over and over or ripping off other sources.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

The other result is the open-source movement (at least with respect to software), which I think has its benefits as well as it downfalls. (I'm never quite sure how they make money unless its from donations or some kind of advertising system )

You are completely missing the point of Open-Source. The volunteers don't want money, they want a damn good product for free. Thats how it works, people donate their time and effort to make stuff. The actual money donations they get go to servers and bandwidth, not into their pockets.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

I sure wish more people had respect for the hard work the people that make the things a lot of people are stealing.

Most of the stuff I see them producing I wouldn't claim to have been hard work. Most of it I would consider a colossal waste of time and effort.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

I'm just curious on others thoughts on this stuff.

Done.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kanzen

[reply=Vagrant]
I'm just curious what is going on lately on this site, the internet and the world in general lately with regards to what can be summed up as the universal motto, 'Give me everything for free'.

Thats greed for you. Greed making the CEOs and big time executives raising prices on products. Greed killing competition. Greed alienating lawful costumers. Then you have the people that are unwilling to give into their greed.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

Seriously, digital media and the proliferation of computing makes it extremely easy for things like movies, music, books, games and software to be copied, burned and sent to others. Then when the people affected by these activities steps up to say something, people tear into them for being 'uber-money making whores' of companies, yet without them, people wouldn't have any of those very things they felt compelled to effectively just steal. There is some kind of spiteful, hateful, entitlement driven idea being fueld from somewhere in many people's heads.

Most of the stuff out there that is being pirated, in my opinion is usually garbage. Movies, music, games, and a lot of software is utter junk that was just made to make a quick buck. Then a lot of the bigger businesses practice which should be considered unethical practices of lock-in and lock-out. Take for example the RIAA. Have you seen their actions lately?

Suing grandmothers for hundreds of thousands of dollars because their grand kids listened to a song or two. How about installing rootkits and backdoors into people's machines without consent? Maybe it could be them inflating prices on music, and stiffing the little people in the process. Guess what, most musicians don't make jack off their CD sales. Want to know who gets the big bucks? The executives.

If you want people to think of you as a good business you have to be one. You have to be fair and good to the costumer. You have to work hard and produce something people will gladly give money for. Don't sit there and cut off people and ruin what kind of mental image is that? Who would you hand your money to? A company that has a history of installing malicious items on your computer or limiting what you could do with your item. OR... would you give your money to a bunch of good guys who care enough about the costumers they wouldn't treat you that way?

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

Furthermore, why do so many people feel so entitled to obtaining all these things for free? I realize one person stealing from a company like Microsoft, isn't a very big deal to Microsoft, though that doesn't make it any more 'ok'. Even ten people, so what, its not a big deal, but how about 500, 1000, 10000 or more?

You don't seem to understand, lets say a ton of people steal a copy of Windows. Do you think that will really hurt Microsoft? You do realize that Microsoft purposely let Windows become readily available as warez when it fought OS/2. They wanted mind share and to get people locked in. Thats how they work. Thats why they are getting grief from everyone. Now tell me if this is fair. A CEO that rakes in 50 billion will still make money even though he doesn't really need it. But those workers who actually work on a product get shafted. Its outright absurd what the CEOs and executives pay themselves. While the little people get the crumbs, the rich gouge themselves. Buying more products from them isn't going to help the little people. They always get screwed.

Average low-end Microsoft programmer makes about $60,000. This person slaves over a computer for about 16 hours a day. Bill Gates, who is outright absurdly rich is making what that little programmer makes in a year in a week or less.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

That's a lot of lost profit for work done. Now I know Microsoft isn't necessarily hurting (or are they, I don't know i'm not an analyst), the fact is a lot of people are actively stealing, copying and burning software such as Windows, and they thinks it cool and alright to do so, always by means of some fairly lame excuse, typically thrown right back at that very company for some reason or another.

Not really. The workers get screwed anyways by the consumers. Want to know who really pays for Microsoft's products? Businesses. Microsoft is hardly from hurting, they are still bringing in an increasingly profit margin. Microsoft couldn't be happier about people stealing their stuff. It gets that stuff out and locks them into the product.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

This is frustrating to me because I make my living writing software, its whats putting food on my table and allowing me to live.

How much is your boss making? If you're so frustrated about piracy I think you should leave the industry. Hate to break it to you, but you cannot kill piracy. No matter how much effort you put into stop it there will be someone to crack it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

The same goes for any other product that is copied and stolen in mass quantities as I spoke about above, even if a single person feels its okay to steal like this, its affecting somebody.

Yeah it hurts people. No surprise. How about solving a big reason people pirate? Because the rich people are already too rich. Why can't Bill be realistic and giving up his $50 billion go into a $250,000 a year salary and give the rest back to the workers? Does he really need all that money? I surely don't see him trying to raise millions of families.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

The common excuse is "screw them, they're rich enough", but in saying that they are usually referring to Bill Gates or others in the top echelon's of the company.

Well if you cut the absurd amount of money the CEOs make and give that too the workers I'm sure people will feel a lot better about giving companies money. Instead you know what those greedy fat cats do? Instead of them taking a little nibble off their makings will gladly cut you and hundreds if not thousands of workers free for extra cash.

Seriously, why do CEOs need more than $500,000 a year? Its just an obscene waste of money and resources.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

However companies like Microsoft, Dell, Google (though most people like Google for some reason), phone companies, publishing companies, etc. are all comprised of thousands of workers.

No surprise they are comprised of many workers. It'd be hard for them not to be. Have you looked at the salaries of the top people in those companies? Many of them could easily buy a handful of 3rd world nations and bring them up. Google is an odd duck because technically they don't sell any products. They use their advertising to make money. And just for your information both top honchos at Google, taking a cue from Steve Jobs, only pay themself a single dollar a year.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

So the millions or sometimes billions of dollars companies make will often go back into the company and operating capital. The biggest cost to almost any business is the payroll. Stealing in effect hurts a lot of people potentially, especially when many people do it, which is clearly the case.

Heh. Most of the income towards payroll goes to the top CEOs, chairmen, executives, and lawyers. Again, if you want to help people have the CEOs cut out those absurd salaries.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

I personally don't see anything wrong when companies that are actively and obviously being ripped off step in and try to do something to stem the damage (wether that be requiring registration, licensing codes or changes to licensing agreements), however there is a LOT of animosity in the world towards this kind of reaction from such companies and I just don't see where its coming from, other than people are obtaining a sense of entitlement from somewhere, whats what I'm trying to figure out.

There is a difference between trying to protect your content and forcefully removing people's freedoms from things they paid for, and then on top of that invading their privacy. All that DRM thats coming into Vista? Thats a collaboration between M$, and the MPAA. The bulk of the money coming from that lock-in goes to the already rich people. Not to the hard workers.

Microsoft is actively trying to kill hardware options. They admitted it too. Thats not making those smaller companies that need profits, profit. Its cutting them out completely. http://www.boingboing.net/2006/01/30/msft_our_drm_licensi.html

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

Regardless, the end result of these activities is for digital media to be very tightly bound to the individual in some way, so that the ability to copy and give to another will be destroyed or overaly time-consuming or complex to be worth the thief's time.

A lot of pirates often will pay for a damn good source of a product. I've done it. I've actually given Adobe quite a bit of money, but well, sometimes I just can't afford those prices. Anime and mangas that I get from torrents, if I enjoy enough I actually purchase later because its a better quality than the compressed stuff online.

Now movies and music? Most of it I find to be utter crap so I don't even bother to steal it. I'm amazed how people can call "My humps" actual music. I'm amazed at how the MPAA just can't be original in anyway and just keep rehashing the same stuff over and over or ripping off other sources.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

The other result is the open-source movement (at least with respect to software), which I think has its benefits as well as it downfalls. (I'm never quite sure how they make money unless its from donations or some kind of advertising system )

You are completely missing the point of Open-Source. The volunteers don't want money, they want a damn good product for free. Thats how it works, people donate their time and effort to make stuff. The actual money donations they get go to servers and bandwidth, not into their pockets.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

I sure wish more people had respect for the hard work the people that make the things a lot of people are stealing.

Most of the stuff I see them producing I wouldn't claim to have been hard work. Most of it I would consider a colossal waste of time and effort.

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

I'm just curious on others thoughts on this stuff.

Done.
[/reply]

to kanzi!
i would answer only with one word,cos my english sucks .. bullshit.

a lil off topic, but kind of fits to...

Copywrite, trademarks and patents. These things allow people to own ideas and to punish people that "steal" ideas and produce derivatives. Contrary to the ideals of free-market capitalism, they facilitate the creation of monopolies on ideas which destroys competition.

Lets say I create a software product called WIMP (Whatever Illustrates My Point). I spend a couple years developing this program and it revolutionizes computers by becoming the universal Operating system. It can read and interpret every program ever produced for any older operating system, and it handles memory better than any other OS. It's a godsend to anyone that hates compatibility issues. So before I go public, I copywrite my software (lasts my lifetime +75 years) and then trademark the brand and patent the coding that made it's universal compatibility possible.

After a year-- assuming I would've paid myself $20,000 an hour to produce this software-- I "finally" pay off my initial investment. WIMP is no longer merely universally compatible, it's also universally liscenced.

I decide to create WIMP Co. a corporation which is given through law the business rights of any human (although it doesn't suffer from the same frailties of a human-- i.e. death), and I transfer copywrite, trademark and patent to the corporation's name. Now in the event of my death, my copywrite, etc will not go public after 75 years, instead it will be "privately" owned for as long as the corporation is willing to defend the copywrite. I make the company public and quickly buy up 60% of the shares so I stay owner and have 9% shares I can sell off as the stock improves and still remain majority owner.

By now people are starting to complain about a rarely occuring bug in WIMP. Apparently, although it wasn't my design, if WIMP is left running for 240 hours straight the computer explodes incinerating everything within an 8 foot radius. I'm not going to lie to ya, there have been deaths-- primarily chineses WoW goldsellers, but still, I'm getting a lot of flak. I can't figure out what's causing the bug, and I'm starting to panic. Then within a 2 weeks-- or after China's population has been reduced by 10%-- some smart-cookie on the internet starts distributing a patch for WIMP. He created the patch and is distributing it for free, selling it on CD for the cost of shipping and materials. I offer to buy the patch from him and he refuses out of principle. But I have the law on my side-- screw principle!

I hire a crack team of 20 mercenary programmers that'll work for salary and health and dental, and get them to reverse engineer the patch and figure out what it does to fix WIMP. Then I pay them to re-create it in a way that produces the least number of bugs, and I copywrite, trademark, patent and release WIMPfix for $29.95 USD. Quietly, I sue WIMPfix's original programmer for violation of WIMP's liscence and I bankrupt him.

I decide to keep the 20 mercenary programmers on staff, and expand my programming departments and every year I use what they produce (I'm no longer producing anything) to create updates for WIMP on an annual basis. Mostly, the changes are UI (user interface) and security related, but the public still puts billions into my pocket book every year. Every once in a while there's a couple people that try and improve on WIMP without paying me for the privilege (and/or giving me the rights to their work), but I sue them, steal their ideas and they disappear. There are pirates stealing WIMP on a daily basis, but they're by far the minority, and I financially ruin a handful of them every year to send a message to anyone else that's thinking of stealing "my" work.

I've created a monster, and I own it. I'm the richest man in the world. And no one may build upon my ideas without working for me or going through a world of financial hurt and giving me their product. Sound like a fantasy? Ask Bill Gates.

Now imagine this scenario in a world where copywrites and patents lasted only 5 years and could not be renewed. Trademarks last forever, but what's in a brand? WIMP and WIMPfix as intellectual properties become public in 5 years, I've made my money from when it was new and hip and now I've got to find a way to be competitive again. And the competition is tough! Sure, there are those that're just attempting to put out cheap cut-n-paste versions of WIMP, but they're no real threat to my empire. It's the blokes that're actually improving on WIMP and selling it that're giving me problems. It's rough out there when there aren't any artificial bottle-necks built to prevent competition. They're producing a better product, and I have no way to combat that without getting innovative myself.

Oh well, that's free-market capitalism for ya.... And it's what we don't have.



Now I've sorta side-stepped the whole piracy question you're asking about, but I think my fantasy above speaks to your question. It's not healthy to artificially limit competition in a market. These limitations are put in place to keep the rich rich and to limit the options of those that would like to compete with the rich. Piracy is an outgrowth of this system... a sorta work-around to it's innate unfairness.

You asked, "why do so many people feel so entitled to obtaining all these things for free?"

Allow me to get all socratic on yo ass: "Why does Donald Trump feel he's entitled to a cut of any merchandise sold with the words 'You're fired!' slapped on them?"

read the first line then lost interest... errrrr

You know its funny, caribonz asked in another thread if there was a Jeff1-Jeff612. I think this thread answers that question nicely.

All the words are making me dizzy.....

reading isn't for everyone, Mr_Big.

Open source is not supposed to make money thats why its free. for you by you story

i like this thread

Quote:

Originally posted by rainbowdemon

None of you have any attention span at all. I thought it was very well written.

I agree. I'm thinking about making this a sticky, though I'm not sure the software forum is the right place to sticky it...

Jake

Quote:

Originally posted by Vagrant

I haven't seen a blue screen in like 10 years, in fact I rarely have any problem with the OS, and I gladly pay $200 as its pretty cheap considering what you get, can do a hell of a lot more than a $400 xbox or a $5000 television.

If 'crap software' is an excuse to steal it instead of pay for it.... it makes little sense, if it sucked so bad I'd think it wouldn't be worth stealing.

Good points. It's nice to see someone with something to say other than just "Windows is shit"

Jake

"Windows is a big steaming cow pie."

That count as something other than?