Delete log issues

Yes, me again. I do think this new "delete log" is a great addition to this site, so please don't think I'm moaning about it's introduction.

What I would like to know, however, is how the moderators check if a photo has been "altered/photoshopped"? Admittedly, in the past I thought cropping and colour enhancement was OK, as I thought the main girl in the photo should be the focus and people wouldn't generally mind a small part of the background (other people, scenery etc) being cropped out. But then I was told that wasn't allowed so I stopped doing it.

Today I found a number of decent images from another site I was visiting, and decided they would be worthy of being uploaded here. Knowing about this new "delete log", and keen to actually get some images allowed onto the site, I made sure I didn't crop or alter these images in any way. I even went to the effort of carrying out a Google image search on each photo to check they weren't pro models/celebrities, and to make sure they weren't cropped from larger photos. I found that I had the largest version of each photo, and that none were flagged up as models/celebrities.

Within 10 minutes of me uploading 30-odd photos to my queue, 17 were immediately rejected for being "altered/photoshopped" and 3 for being "celeb/model".

I really don't know what else I'm supposed to do, so any advice would be warmly received. I really am not moaning about the system, as it's already led to me trying to improve the quality of my uploads, but I just can't see where I am going wrong when 17 photos get rejected so quickly.

As an example, this is one photo I tried to upload:

[ External image - login to view ]

I've not cropped or altered this one in any way, and carrying out a Google image search only leads me to smaller versions of the same photo. If I could be told what I need to be doing in order to know that this has been altered, I'd appreciate it.

You're not moaning about the system, but you're pretty much asking mods to justify every single deletion you don't understand.
We don't have the time for that. You now have reason to narrow down the reason. If it's been marked as "altered/cropped" then the problem on the pics is: sideways, multiple pics in one, photoshopped/filtered, has borders or has been cropped. The first ones are pretty obvious to check so if it's none of them, that means the picture has been cropped (more likely to remove a watermark or bypass the similar picture check, even on google).

You get your pictures on the internet so even if you didn't crop them, that doesn't mean they haven't been previously. Google check, pictures ratio and picture memory can help find/remember a cropped picture.

Quote:

Originally posted by omuh

You're not moaning about the system, but you're pretty much asking mods to justify every single deletion you don't understand.
We don't have the time for that. You now have reason to narrow down the reason. If it's been marked as "altered/cropped" then the problem on the pics is: sideways, multiple pics in one, photoshopped/filtered, has borders or has been cropped. The first ones are pretty obvious to check so if it's none of them, that means the picture has been cropped (more likely to remove a watermark or bypass the similar picture check, even on google).

You get your pictures on the internet so even if you didn't crop them, that doesn't mean they haven't been previously. Google check, pictures ratio and picture memory can help find/remember a cropped picture.

Omuh, I'm not asking the mods to justify every single decision. I've been a member of this site for a long time now because I enjoy it, and I want to continue enjoying it. I merely want to know what I'm doing wrong so that the quality of my uploads improve. Is that such a bad thing?

This photo wasn't sideways.
It wasn't multiple pics in one.

I carried out a Google search and this was the largest/best quality version of the image that I found.

All I asked was what method the mods use to work out that an image has been cropped, because then I can do it for myself in future before I upload them.

Why is this such a difficult request?

It's not a difficult request but seeing how you've been posting several threads about rejected uploads in just 2 days, I can see it becoming annoying. That's why I'm clearly stating here that we are not going to teach everyone how to improve their uploads because that's what the system is for.

As said in my previous post, if your pic wasn't sideways or multiple or bordered etc. then it was marked as altered because it's cropped. Google doesn't detect cropped pictures as well as it did before (they probably made some changes here) even though it can still find some "original pics" here and there.
Personally, I detect cropped pics with google, pic ratio, picture I know are cropped, picture quality and frame.
It's not 100% accurate but it helps a lot and I'd rather delete 5% of "good" upload rather than let pass 30% of bad ones.

You can't do much to improve that though except maybe change the site you get your pics from. Because from experience, some users uploads mostly cropped pics when others don't. And it's very often the same guys doing that.

Again, from experience, half the pics rejected for you have been pros and cropped or both.
So if you really want to improve your uploads, you should start with all the pro selfshots you've been uploading over, and over, and over.

Quote:

Originally posted by omuh

It's not a difficult request but seeing how you've been posting several threads about rejected uploads in just 2 days, I can see it becoming annoying. That's why I'm clearly stating here that we are not going to teach everyone how to improve their uploads because that's what the system is for.

As said in my previous post, if your pic wasn't sideways or multiple or bordered etc. then it was marked as altered because it's cropped. Google doesn't detect cropped pictures as well as it did before (they probably made some changes here) even though it can still find some "original pics" here and there.
Personally, I detect cropped pics with google, pic ratio, picture I know are cropped, picture quality and frame.
It's not 100% accurate but it helps a lot and I'd rather delete 5% of "good" upload rather than let pass 30% of bad ones.

You can't do much to improve that though except maybe change the site you get your pics from. Because from experience, some users uploads mostly cropped pics when others don't. And it's very often the same guys doing that.

Again, from experience, half the pics rejected for you have been pros and cropped or both.
So if you really want to improve your uploads, you should start with all the pro selfshots you've been uploading over, and over, and over.

Firstly, I think you will find that my other TWO threads about rejected uploads have been in the "Who's That Girl?" forum because they were rejected as being professional models or celebrities. So in order for me to find more of them, I asked if anyone knew who they were. I wasn't aware that this was frowned upon.

Secondly, if I know a photo is professional, I don't upload it. The ones that I do upload are obviously of women who I don't think/know are models or celebrities. But God forbid I should then use the "Who's That Girl?" forum to find out eh? The word "celebrity" is banded around a fair bit these days, so sometimes it's tough knowing where you draw the line. Plus, if a relatively unknown model takes a selfie, there's a chance I won't know she is famous and I may just upload her photo.

I don't believe that you are naive enough to think that you wouldn't get questions about the new system. You're telling people why their photos were rejected, which is a good thing. But if they disagree or don't understand, then of course they will ask. Saying you don't have time to respond is foolish - the users of WBW who bother to upload photos are the lifeblood of the site. The amateur photo galleries are why thousands of members visit in the first place, so improving the quality of images will of course benefit them but also Diz I'm sure. So when these people ask questions about how to improve their uploads, you could just answer with a bit of courtesy, rather than acting like it's just a hassle and stating that it's "annoying". I'm sure the mods have lots to do, but hopefully not too much so they can ignore or be rude to the members who actually make this site as popular as it is...

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Originally posted by jhope1

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Firstly, I think you will find that my other TWO threads about rejected uploads have been in the "Who's That Girl?" forum because they were rejected as being professional models or celebrities. So in order for me to find more of them, I asked if anyone knew who they were. I wasn't aware that this was frowned upon.

It's not frowned upon. But then why tell that it's been rejected everytime and send me a PM as well to know why if not to have a justification from the crew?

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Secondly, if I know a photo is professional, I don't upload it. The ones that I do upload are obviously of women who I don't think/know are models or celebrities. But God forbid I should then use the "Who's That Girl?" forum to find out eh? The word "celebrity" is banded around a fair bit these days, so sometimes it's tough knowing where you draw the line. Plus, if a relatively unknown model takes a selfie, there's a chance I won't know she is famous and I may just upload her photo.

Then, for someone who seem to be really concerned by his upload quality, why did you never google search your upload before uploading them? The majority of pros I've been deleting from you for the last year (around half your uploaded pics) were easily found from a single search. You've been warned several times and even suspended for that. You could think that it's something that would give you the hint to be more careful with your uploads right? Nope nothing changed. So that's why I'm being a bit annoyed here. It's a bit like those people being mad their uploads haven't been accepted while they were "100% original and amateur" only to find out they are reposts and pros.

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I don't believe that you are naive enough to think that you wouldn't get questions about the new system. You're telling people why their photos were rejected, which is a good thing. But if they disagree or don't understand, then of course they will ask. Saying you don't have time to respond is foolish - the users of WBW who bother to upload photos are the lifeblood of the site. The amateur photo galleries are why thousands of members visit in the first place, so improving the quality of images will of course benefit them but also Diz I'm sure. So when these people ask questions about how to improve their uploads, you could just answer with a bit of courtesy, rather than acting like it's just a hassle and stating that it's "annoying". I'm sure the mods have lots to do, but hopefully not too much so they can ignore or be rude to the members who actually make this site as popular as it is...

No it's not foolish to say we don't have time to answer specific questions about specific uploads just like we always said we had no time and resources to explain everyone why their uploads were rejected. Now that the system can automatically tell you why your uploads have been deleted (which takes us a bit more time) it won't change the fact that we can't answer everyone's question about x pic.

I have no issue at all about general questions and issues the system could bring and I will happily answer them (which reminds me I need to update the FAQ) but again, we're not going to explain each specific reason for each pictures. You got your answer about how cropped pic could be found but are still asking about that specific picture...

Quote:

Originally posted by omuh

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It's not frowned upon. But then why tell that it's been rejected everytime and send me a PM as well to know why if not to have a justification from the crew?

Let's not get carried away now, I sent you one PM re: the photo that was rejected for being professional, because after starting the WTG thread and Cheap2 not even finding any proof of her being pro, I wondered if it was rejected for the right reasons. Lo and behold, the mod then admitted he had mis-clicked when rejecting it, and it was actually a duplicate. So I was right to be concerned about that one not actually being professional.

Quote:

Originally posted by omuh

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Then, for someone who seem to be really concerned by his upload quality, why did you never google search your upload before uploading them? The majority of pros I've been deleting from you for the last year (around half your uploaded pics) were easily found from a single search. You've been warned several times and even suspended for that. You could think that it's something that would give you the hint to be more careful with your uploads right? Nope nothing changed. So that's why I'm being a bit annoyed here. It's a bit like those people being mad their uploads haven't been accepted while they were "100% original and amateur" only to find out they are reposts and pros.

I admitted that I never used to check my uploads, so that is why so many probably got rejected. Still, I've managed to sneak over 4000 through so I'm doing something right... Since the introduction of the new system, I've tried to be careful and check the photos, but if a selfie brings up 50-odd results, the first 10 being other forums and no mention of the "celebrity's" name, then I would just upload it. I'm not going to go through every single result, and I doubt anyone does. It seems that even if I do a Google search and upload the best quality image of an amateur, I still don't know if it's been cropped or photo-shopped and they still get rejected anyway (this is why I asked what that particular mod had used to tell within 10 minutes that all 17 had been altered). And yes, I've been warned and suspended, and once I've stopped sobbing to myself and calmed down a bit, I realised it's not the end of the world. I think I've been suspended twice (maybe three times?) in the 7 years I've been a member, and my basic maths skills tell me that's less than once a year. So I'm relatively proud of that. Plus suspension doesn't really improve the quality of uploads, it just means they get stockpiled and then uploaded once the suspension is lifted (this is pre-the new system).

Quote:

Originally posted by omuh

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No it's not foolish to say we don't have time to answer specific questions about specific uploads just like we always said we had no time and resources to explain everyone why their uploads were rejected. Now that the system can automatically tell you why your uploads have been deleted (which takes us a bit more time) it won't change the fact that we can't answer everyone's question about x pic.

Which is understandable. I don't ask a question about every upload of mine that gets rejected. I do when I think it's wrong, and you're right in saying the new system will help with that. I think me asking about one photo being rejected for being a pro, which then turned out to NOT be a pro, shows that I don't just ask willy-nilly about every single rejected upload.

Quote:

Originally posted by omuh

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I have no issue at all about general questions and issues the system could bring and I will happily answer them but again, we're not going to explain each specific reason for each pictures. You got your answer about how cropped pic could be found but are still asking about that specific picture...

I didn't really get an answer though, unless I missed it. It wasn't sideways, it wasn't 2 photos in 1, and Google didn't show any other photos that mine was cropped from. You said Google isn't great any more, so it would be helpful to know what site the moderator used to find out my photo was cropped/altered. I'm not asking these questions in order to prove that this particular photo was rejected unfairly, I'm actually asking so I can carry out the same checks on all my future uploads to make sure they're legit. I thought I was trying to help but clearly not.

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Which is understandable. I don't ask a question about every upload of mine that gets rejected. I do when I think it's wrong, and you're right in saying the new system will help with that. I think me asking about one photo being rejected for being a pro, which then turned out to NOT be a pro, shows that I don't just ask willy-nilly about every single rejected upload.

This took some time (find who modded that pic, ask him to check it, then answer to you). Again, we can't do that for everyone asking about any particular pic. Just know that the reason are now here to help you understand why your uploads are rejected but that mistakes may happen (because we're still human).

Quote:

I didn't really get an answer though, unless I missed it.

You missed it indeed :
Personally, I detect cropped pics with google, pic ratio, picture I know are cropped, picture quality and frame.
It's not 100% accurate but it helps a lot and I'd rather delete 5% of "good" upload rather than let pass 30% of bad ones.

Quote:

I admitted that I never used to check my uploads, so that is why so many probably got rejected. Still, I've managed to sneak over 4000 through so I'm doing something right... [...] I think I've been suspended twice (maybe three times?) in the 7 years I've been a member, and my basic maths skills tell me that's less than once a year. So I'm relatively proud of that. Plus suspension doesn't really improve the quality of uploads, it just means they get stockpiled and then uploaded once the suspension is lifted (this is pre-the new system).

Please don't take that as me being mean to you. Most of the normal/good uploaders have no suspensions at all. The fact 4000 pics were accepted just means you uploaded a lot of stuff not that it was good in general since half of it was rejected for being pro which is a pretty bad ratio (it's not even counting the duplicates, cropped and other rules). So no, you shouldn't really be proud of that, really.
You're right that upload suspension didn't solve the upload quality (unless the uploader had no clue about the rules and then read and applied them) but it was mainly a way to avoid the queue being flooded by bad uploads. Now that the new system is in place and that the upload limit will change depending on the quality of uploads we won't need that anymore since bad uploaders queues will be significantly reduced.

I have an additional request for some clarification that seems to fit this topic. Does 'social media' famous (i.e. Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, etc.) equate to celebrity status for rejection? I mean, if many people know that a certain person is Ashley Lee Smythe-Jones-Farquahar, who has many popular Instagram pics in circulation but no other notoriety, does that convey celebrity status to images of that person in terms of rejection criteria? Most certainly, some of those individuals who do obtain notoriety via social media do also obtain celerity/professional model status down the road, many never become more than just popular and well known pretty faces/great bodies on the internet. I am curious if a line is being drawn for for this type of 'celebrity' in terms of acceptance and rejection of submissions?

Quote:

Originally posted by ismb4t

I have an additional request for some clarification that seems to fit this topic. Does 'social media' famous (i.e. Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, etc.) equate to celebrity status for rejection? I mean, if many people know that a certain person is Ashley Lee Smythe-Jones-Farquahar, who has many popular Instagram pics in circulation but no other notoriety, does that convey celebrity status to images of that person in terms of rejection criteria? Most certainly, some of those individuals who do obtain notoriety via social media do also obtain celerity/professional model status down the road, many never become more than just popular and well known pretty faces/great bodies on the internet. I am curious if a line is being drawn for for this type of 'celebrity' in terms of acceptance and rejection of submissions?

Celebrity/Model status is a poor choice of wording on the Dutch crew's behalf, it was briefly discussed before the update went live and was never completely addressed. But here it goes again:

A more apt description would be 'Copyright Violation' since it has a broader meaning and can be appropriately applied to all of the following small terms of violations.

1. Celebrity photo/videos wether professionally shot or by amateur since they are a brand and have undeniable copyright holder status.

This one should be readily apparent to anyone that if it is a well known celebrity they have copyright over their material and cannot be reused without their expressed and explicit consent to do so. So no, you can't upload those ‘Fappening’ pictures or any of those red-carpet events or promotional materials.

2. Model photo/videos wether professionally shot or by amateur since they are also a brand and have undeniable copyright holder status.

Same thing as the first, you can't upload material that you do not have copyright holder status unless you have expressed and explicit consent of said copyright holder. You can't just upload a bunch of Denise Milani pictures to the queue.

3. Pornstar photo/videos wether professionally shot or by amateur since they are also a brand and have undeniable copyright holder status.

Same as above, you can't upload material that you do not have copyright holder status of. That means you can't upload Malena Morgan or Ava Addams to the queue like everyone else is trying to.

4. Any photo or video professionally shot and produced by a company or professional that is also a brand or has undeniable copyright holder status.

Same as above, see the pattern here? That means you can't upload stuff that was taken as a part of a promotion or publicity event.

5. Any photo or video produced by an amateur by an individual as a part of a branding campaign and has undeniable copyright holder status.

Well known individuals that are either intentionally branding themselves or using a common publishing platform for their material cannot be uploaded unless you have expressed and explicit consent. This is the big ticket here, this is were a lot of people are having problems. You see WBW operates under the assumption that every item you upload is either in public domain or that you are the sole copyright owner. Since we don't have the time, staff, or the resources to research each individual photo or video we run with the assumption. But if the person is well known and the source of the material is well known, and it can be easily verified that you are indeed not the sole copyright owner, you are not allowed to knowingly commit copyright infringement of rehosting said material. I prefer the terminology, "Apparent Copyright Violation" because it is exactly what it sounds like. That means you can't go stealing stuff from jj.am or r/gonewild and just uploading it if we know who these people are. That means no Nina1987, no Gingerpuss, no Fayemougles, no Shyredhead_V2, no MJcigarette, etc.

If the person is recognizable and has a brand say for example "Ashley Lee Smythe-Jones-Farquahar" and her material is easily attributable to her or to a particular publishing platform say for example "Instagram" then yes, her material is a violation until you have expressed and explicit consent to rehost her content elsewhere.

Thank you for the clarification Kanzen.

Come on Bro´s
We are "simply" speaking about naked women !!??
OK - no prof shots - okay !! Noted !!
Otherwise - let people do whatever - make a "hotornot" for creative people :o)

What "Delete log" feature are you guys talking about?

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Originally posted by Tarquin

What "Delete log" feature are you guys talking about?

The only way I can get to it is by clicking on the "babes" menu at the top, then selecting "upload". You're then presented with 3 options - "upload babes", "manage babe uploads" and "delete log".

So to move the discussion forward and to actually gain something from it, I would like to ask a couple of questions relating to the delete log.

1. Do uploaders get penalised the same for a duplicate as they would a professional model?

2. If a professional model/celebrity shot sneaks through and is reported by another member, does the original uploader still have that deletion attributed to their records?

3. Is the rule still in place whereby if someone uploads a duplicate image but their image quality is better than the one already on the site, their version is posted and the original deleted?

I really need to update the FAQ (I'll probably do that today), but I'm going to answer those questions here too. The more people aware of the new feature, the better.

Quote:

Originally posted by jhope1

So to move the discussion forward and to actually gain something from it, I would like to ask a couple of questions relating to the delete log.

1. Do uploaders get penalised the same for a duplicate as they would a professional model?

2. If a professional model/celebrity shot sneaks through and is reported by another member, does the original uploader still have that deletion attributed to their records?

1. You get no penalty for uploading a duplicate same if the "other" reason is chosen. You get a small penalty for bad quality, altered/cropped and extreme. You get a medium penalty for pros and watermarked pics. You get a high penalty for under-aged.

2. Not at the moment, the reason system isn't working with pics deleted afterwards.

Quote:

Originally posted by jhope1

3. Is the rule still in place whereby if someone uploads a duplicate image but their image quality is better than the one already on the site, their version is posted and the original deleted?

It can be forgotten depending on how big the queue is, how much time we have, stuff like that so it's not 100% guaranteed. But yeah, that's something I advice mod to check and do, when possible. Of course, the quality difference must be significant (we're not going to remove someone's upload and change it if the quality is already good).

Quote:

Originally posted by omuh

I really need to update the FAQ (I'll probably do that today), but I'm going to answer those questions here too. The more people aware of the new feature, the better.

...
1. You get no penalty for uploading a duplicate same if the "other" reason is chosen. You get a small penalty for bad quality, altered/cropped and extreme. You get a medium penalty for pros and watermarked pics. You get a high penalty for under-aged.

2. Not at the moment, the reason system isn't working with pics deleted afterwards.

...
It can be forgotten depending on how big the queue is, how much time we have, stuff like that so it's not 100% guaranteed. But yeah, that's something I advice mod to check and do, when possible. Of course, the quality difference must be significant (we're not going to remove someone's upload and change it if the quality is already good).

Cool, thanks for the answers.

Thanks, Jhope.

So I've updated the FAQ with those sections :

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Managing your uploads
You can now check your current and deleted uploads from the upload page. The Manage babe uploads tab will allow you to see you pending uploads and delete them (if you've made a mistake for example). The Delete log tab will allow you to see the uploads that have been deleted with the reason why.

User score and upload queue
For each uploads not respecting the rules, you will get a penalty depending on the offence : You get no penalty for uploading a duplicate same if the "other" reason is chosen. You get a small penalty for bad quality, altered/cropped and extreme. You get a medium penalty for pros and watermarked pics. You get a high penalty for under-aged.
A user score is then calculated from these penalties, the number of total uploads and rejected/accepted uploads. The better the score, the higher priority your uploads will have in the queue and the higher your upload limit will be (from 25 to 1000 pics).
This system only starts when you have uploaded at least 100 pictures. Before that, your queue limit will be 100 pics.

I hope it clears out some stuff