Social Conservatives vs. Women, redux

I broached this subject in the Hobby Lobby thread but thought this news item merited it's own thread. As I have mentioned before, there is a long tradition among social conservatives of many, many cultures that messing with a woman's tender parts is politically correct.

Here is a reminder of what conservative religious groups in another country are up to.

http://news.yahoo.com/jihadists-iraq-order-women-undergo-genital-mutilation-002205853.html

Horrible if true. But the article says that it may be a hoax.

Absolutely correct, Mr. Exocet. I should have included that caveat, but the practice is endorsed among conservative Muslim groups to the extent that this news item, if merely a rumor, is regarded as a credible possibility.

Mrs. F.

There has been talk about it happening in the UK.

btw i know it's a serious subject but Am i the only one who finds it slightly humourous that an article about mutilating women's genitalia contain a women called 'Badcock'?

It happens in multiple countries around the world...27-30 to be sorta exact, and effects million of women and girls every year. Would it surprise me if its happening in Iraq...no, not really. :/

http://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/fgm/prevalence/en/

FGM is an issue that really infuriates me. How dare ppl do such horrible things to poor innocent girls.
What really bothers me that our feminist movements in the West don't take a strong enough stance against issues such as FGM.
The treatment of women in most islamic countries is terrible too, but it is considered to be not politically correct to take a stance on women's rights in other cultures. Fuck that I'd say, stand up for women's rights everywhere, in every culture, whether it is politically correct to do so or not!!
Please keep this post rolling.

What I find hypocritical is the fact that female genital mutilation is seen by the west as such a horrific practice (which it is), but male genital mutilation (a.k.a. circumcision) is completely accepted by the west and even encouraged.

Quote:

Originally posted by shawn314

What I find hypocritical is the fact that female genital mutilation is seen by the west as such a horrific practice (which it is), but male genital mutilation (a.k.a. circumcision) is completely accepted by the west and even encouraged.

Totally different things. You can't, and shouldn't, compare the two practices.

Quote:

Originally posted by ranging

...
Totally different things. You can't, and shouldn't, compare the two practices.

Can't I? In either case, we're removing/altering a person's genitals without his/her consent. The only reason one doesn't seem as bad as the other is because we've gotten used to it.

That's not new news. That's been going on for centuries. If it's news to you now that just means you have been blissfully naive about it until this time.

Wait until you get a load of what the GOP is going to do in "Merika" when they get the presidency in 2016. Everything you've known and the way it's felt to live in "Merika" is going to go in the crapper. Mark my words...we'll discuss this in 2016. In the mean time watch the GOP continue to go 100% against the will of the majority of "Merikans" in the remaining two years of Obama's time. I expect several government shut downs. I fully expect the GOP owned Supreme Court will end the Affordable Care Act so that 33,000,000 will lose the ability to buy a for-profit health insurance plan. I expect voting to be thwarted in huge ways. As the GOP has clearly stated, they don't believe voting is a right at all. They believe only a select group of people should be allowed to vote.

Oh and kiss any reproductive choice by women good-bye.

Quote:

Originally posted by paradise_50

Wait until you get a load of what the GOP is going to do in "Merika" when they get the presidency in 2016. Everything you've known and the way it's felt to live in "Merika" is going to go in the crapper. Mark my words...we'll discuss this in 2016. In the mean time watch the GOP continue to go 100% against the will of the majority of "Merikans" in the remaining two years of Obama's time. I expect several government shut downs. I fully expect the GOP owned Supreme Court will end the Affordable Care Act so that 33,000,000 will lose the ability to buy a for-profit health insurance plan. I expect voting to be thwarted in huge ways. As the GOP has clearly stated, they don't believe voting is a right at all. They believe only a select group of people should be allowed to vote.

Oh and kiss any reproductive choice by women good-bye.

Is this why we can't do anything about FGM in other countries? Because we're too busy worrying about the even worse things in this country that haven't happened yet, but we're all afraid will? It's these doomsday predictions about what happens if the GOP gets the White House (again) that keeps people from voting third parties.

Quote:

Originally posted by paradise_50

Wait until you get a load of what the GOP is going to do in "Merika" when they get the presidency in 2016. Everything you've known and the way it's felt to live in "Merika" is going to go in the crapper. Mark my words...we'll discuss this in 2016. In the mean time watch the GOP continue to go 100% against the will of the majority of "Merikans" in the remaining two years of Obama's time. I expect several government shut downs. I fully expect the GOP owned Supreme Court will end the Affordable Care Act so that 33,000,000 will lose the ability to buy a for-profit health insurance plan. I expect voting to be thwarted in huge ways. As the GOP has clearly stated, they don't believe voting is a right at all. They believe only a select group of people should be allowed to vote.

I almost gave it an "awesome" just on the quality of it's inane lunacy.

Quote:

Originally posted by shawn314

What I find hypocritical is the fact that female genital mutilation is seen by the west as such a horrific practice (which it is), but male genital mutilation (a.k.a. circumcision) is completely accepted by the west and even encouraged.

I was circumcised.

Against my will.

I still find sex pleasurable.

I can still achieve orgasm.

I am not ashamed when a woman looks at my genitals.

My life has not been irreparably inhibited by my circumcision.

I have actually benefited from my circumcision (in my view).

I have spoken to men who tell me they wish they had been circumcised.



Find me a female - just a single one - that has suffered genital mutilation that honestly says any one of those things about her experience.

That's why circumcision and genital mutilation are not the same thing, and why they can't be compared in an honest conversation.

Valid point. Okay, I'll grant you they're not equally bad... but it's still wrong to impose it on someone against their will.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarquin

...

I was circumcised.

Against my will.

I still find sex pleasurable.

I can still achieve orgasm.

I am not ashamed when a woman looks at my genitals.

My life has not been irreparably inhibited by my circumcision.

I have actually benefited from my circumcision (in my view).

I have spoken to men who tell me they wish they had been circumcised.



Find me a female - just a single one - that has suffered genital mutilation that honestly says any one of those things about her experience.

That's why circumcision and genital mutilation are not the same thing, and why they can't be compared in an honest conversation.

Quote:

Originally posted by shawn314

Valid point. Okay, I'll grant you they're not equally bad... but it's still wrong to impose it on someone against their will.

...

An honest acknowledgement of a contrary point.

That's all too rare. Thank you, Shawn.

Also, I see your argument about it being against one's will, but I'd then argue that even if I could make that choice now (to go back and change that aspect of my life), I wouldn't. I'd choose the same thing that my parents and doctors chose for me at the time.

Since I wasn't able to articulate that at the time, I'm thankful someone did so on my behalf.

It's not an ideal circumstance to ever do anything for someone on their behalf (like resuscitate a potentially unwilling heart attack victim), but we are often faced with situations where we have to make a choice, and we take our best shot in the interest of the person we're trying to help.

Quote:

Originally posted by shawn314

Valid point. Okay, I'll grant you they're not equally bad... but it's still wrong to impose it on someone against their will.

...

That's a fair enough point. Male circumcision is a wholly separate debate.

I don't think I need to go back and re-visit your comment to me. Looks like Tarquin has made my point for me.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarquin

...

I was circumcised.

Against my will.

I still find sex pleasurable.

I can still achieve orgasm.

I am not ashamed when a woman looks at my genitals.

My life has not been irreparably inhibited by my circumcision.

I have actually benefited from my circumcision (in my view).

I have spoken to men who tell me they wish they had been circumcised.



Find me a female - just a single one - that has suffered genital mutilation that honestly says any one of those things about her experience.

That's why circumcision and genital mutilation are not the same thing, and why they can't be compared in an honest conversation.

Yes female mutilation is worse than male mutilation. It doesn't change the fact that's it's a mutilation if done against your will (which it often is).
With the same argument we could say that cutting someone's finger would be ok compared to cutting the arm because you can still have a normal life with one less finger.
Circumcision will reduce pleasure (the foreskin being one very sensitive area and the penis itself becoming less sensitive due to its constant exposure) and contrary to popular belief it's not better for health quite the contrary as the foreskin act as a protective layer.
Now all this will still allow you to have pleasure and orgasms but that doesn't change the fact that it's going against someone's integrity (and it has been judged as such once in Germany, even though religious reacted to it very strongly).
Circumcision is just something that is so very rooted in society. And society habits can change everything, just like alcohol and cigarettes are considered ok while they are no better (even worse) than a lot of prohibited drugs.

I've heard men wondering why they were circumcised and who wouldn't inflict that to their child even though, as you said, it's pretty rare. Again because of the general representation we have of this driven by society habits.

MGM is equivalent to the most common type of FGM, FGM type IIa. When people refer to FGM, they often imagine the most extreme and rare cases, type IV.

FGM is not linked to one specific religion (i.e. Islam), it's a cultural practice that was existing before the introduction to Islam and Catholicism within these area. Also, most of FGM/MGM traditions are perpetuated by the genders who are affected by them (i.e. women in the case of FGM).