What I tried to get out of the friend zone: further advice needed:

Honesty presented with the best attitude is what he should be using regardless of his motives. It also seems to be an approach that is foreign to the poster.

My take on this is that he has an unhealthy sense of entitlement in this. Frankly, he (or she for that matter) is not entitled to anything other than honesty.

Let's see how both parties handle this awkward situation. Maybe they will be a perfect match after all.

Quote:

Originally posted by hornithologist

The guy is looking to get laid and is seeking some helpful advice. Is that a crime? No. Is he overgeneralizing when he keeps stating that "ALL" women want this or that? Hell yeah, but he'll eventually learn how wrong he is.

SP ... it didn't help when you called him a douchebag right off the bat. He started to get a bit defensive after that.

I don't think he was seeking advice from our female members. While you and F1 are very intelligent, witty, and full of helpful advice on a wide array of different subjects, you're still female and are much more sensitive than the average guy. He's trying to get her in the sack and you two (and Darklight) are worried about her feelings.

Nightowl ... you getting berated about this by two women should help you out. Learn from this. Are you acting like this in front of "class girl"? Obviously you made the mistake of talking about a threesome to her .... I would mention an orgy you are attending next weekend, and play it off as a joke, and that you were joking about the threesome earlier as well.

You just have to let her know that you're interested. Maybe she is used to having guy friends from her younger days and has no clue that you want more.

Quote:

Originally posted by hornithologist

The guy is looking to get laid and is seeking some helpful advice. Is that a crime? No. Is he overgeneralizing when he keeps stating that "ALL" women want this or that? Hell yeah, but he'll eventually learn how wrong he is.

Actually, he says he is looking "to BE the boyfriend if she is going to be turning to me like a boyfriend for support", so I don't think he's just looking to get laid. However at the same time, it seems that he thinks she owes him something because he is there for support.

Quote:

Originally posted by hornithologist

SP ... it didn't help when you called him a douchebag right off the bat. He started to get a bit defensive after that.

I agree, and I apologize for that, it was uncalled for. I was just a little defensive about the whole "not getting any pussy in return" bit.

Okay some of that psychoanalysis assumed a lot and got a little out of hand, but none the less I think there is some valuable advice in there.

Update: We texted today as usual about an upcoming test and just batted a few texts back and forth after that. No mention made of the threesome thing, and yes I did get an offer for a threesome but I probably should have just said it was an offer from one girl rather than two. The 3some text may not have been talked about but I know she heard it so no need to repeat it. She now knows I am in some humble semblance of demand. I didn't ask her over to study tonight but rather said she was "welcome to come over and study" which sounds better than "asking" in some way. No answer yet. BTW, I DO realize this has little chance of going my way but still, may as wlel try at least to steer it my way. If it doesn't work then we're just destined to be friends.

One thing I would NOT do is sit her down and "tell her how you feel". That doesn't really work usually and has crashed and burned many times for many a guy. Why? Because it does nothing to engage her *emotions* and get her excited about or attracted to a guy. That's like the difference between telling someone the specs of a hot car and actually getting them in them in the seat for a test drive. Which is going to make you want to buy that car more? Plus she is not necessarily attracted to me in that way yet, in which case telling her how I feel would work, but we've got to get over switching her attention to me to a more romantic level. Also, I have gone out with many women and for all the ones I was serious with, I never had to sit down and "tell them how I felt" before the relationship moved to a more serious or exclusive thing. That is expressed in behavior and body language much more strongly. It's referred to as "flirting".

But while I have your attention and thanks for your advice...but how exactly does a guy NOT fall into the friend zone, which pretty much spells doom? And keep in mind this has to be done almost as soon as you meet them. No one may have all the answers but maybe we can put something together here. Do guys *put* themselves in the friend zone or do we *get* put there?

maybe you are put in the friend's zone because no woman would be attracted to you, so they will only talk to you as a friend and not as someone they would be involved with more then a friend.

Just level with the woman in the most diplomatic way possible and ask her for her thoughts on the directoin of the relationship. Dig ?

No demands, no pouty attitude. Just man up and gently ask. And if she starts to dissumulate or vacilate, then you have your clear answer. Don't ask her to explain it. Don't attempt to negotiate it. You have nothing to sell to her.

Now man up and do it. Your maturity will show in how you discuss this with her without anger, attitude, or entitlement anywhere in your voice.

You're ignorant. I can tell just from the way you speak to other people on this here message board why she isn't interested in taking the friendship further. You have much to learn my friend, both about life, and how to talk to people. Especially when your are openly asking for advice.

My thoughts on this thread:



Does anyone else notice that the general pattern of Jeff's posts here are like this:

1. How do I get girl to _______?

and then in the next paragraph:

2. Listen, girls are like this _______.


Anyway, just give up. You're not going to fuck this chick, because she's not interested.

[youtube]5jn1p7SXM1w[/youtube]

I know this because of two glaringly obvious facts. First, because she's not interested in hanging out with you anywhere outside of class even though you've extended offers. She's always "too busy." You were right in your initial post that if she'd wanted to hang out with you, she would have. She doesn't. Too bad, so sad. Second, she's an emotional mess right now - calling guys from class at three in the AM crying about things isn't 'normal' behavior - and you're over there blabbering on about getting invited to threesomes. From her perspective, you two are most certainly not in the same place emotionally and therefore are currently incompatible. As such, I suggest you invest in a moist towelette.


As to your question as to how to avoid the "friend zone?" Well, you could always just not be her friend. Other than that, it's hard to give any concrete advice because every girl is different and has different desires and expectations from the people she's around, so blanket advice is usually destined to fail. The simple way is to make it very clear that you're interested in said girl, and when she makes it very clear that she's not interested cease all in-depth communication. It's easier on everyone that way.

And finally, one last, and important, piece of advice. Stop acting like you're entitled to something because some broad you're trying to bang called you in the middle of the night. You're entitled to nothing. She thinks you're merely being a friend and in the back of your mind you're running through scenarios involving contractual blowjob obligations and growing frustrated. That's unhealthy, and, quite frankly, pretty insulting. If you want to talk to this girl and comfort her when she's upset, go ahead. If you don't, don't. But don't talk to her under the assumption that she's keeping score and realizes that she now owes you for all the times she's called. Life doesn't work that way.

Simple way to avoid the dreaded "friend zone" : Don't become friends with girls you want to have sex with. At least, not at first.

If you meet a woman you would be interested in sleeping with, let her know you're interested in her romantically as soon as possible. Don't just whip it out and say "heeyyy" but be upfront about your intentions. If you do that the woman will see you as a man who is romantically/sexually interested in her. Now she may not feel that way about you and turn you down. Move along. If she does feel that way, great. Go on a few dates, possibly get a little action, over time you will either find that you enjoy this woman's company and personality and continue the relationship. Or, you don't much care for her and break it off. It's called dating.

Quote:

Originally posted by EricLindros

My thoughts on this thread: [ Image ]



Does anyone else notice that the general pattern of Jeff's posts here are like this:

1. How do I get girl to _______?

and then in the next paragraph:

2. Listen, girls are like this _______.


Anyway, just give up. You're not going to fuck this chick, because she's not interested.

[youtube]5jn1p7SXM1w[/youtube]

I know this because of two glaringly obvious facts. First, because she's not interested in hanging out with you anywhere outside of class even though you've extended offers. She's always "too busy." You were right in your initial post that if she'd wanted to hang out with you, she would have. She doesn't. Too bad, so sad. Second, she's an emotional mess right now - calling guys from class at three in the AM crying about things isn't 'normal' behavior - and you're over there blabbering on about getting invited to threesomes. From her perspective, you two are most certainly not in the same place emotionally and therefore are currently incompatible. As such, I suggest you invest in a moist towelette.


As to your question as to how to avoid the "friend zone?" Well, you could always just not be her friend. Other than that, it's hard to give any concrete advice because every girl is different and has different desires and expectations from the people she's around, so blanket advice is usually destined to fail. The simple way is to make it very clear that you're interested in said girl, and when she makes it very clear that she's not interested cease all in-depth communication. It's easier on everyone that way.

And finally, one last, and important, piece of advice. Stop acting like you're entitled to something because some broad you're trying to bang called you in the middle of the night. You're entitled to nothing. She thinks you're merely being a friend and in the back of your mind you're running through scenarios involving contractual blowjob obligations and growing frustrated. That's unhealthy, and, quite frankly, pretty insulting. If you want to talk to this girl and comfort her when she's upset, go ahead. If you don't, don't. But don't talk to her under the assumption that she's keeping score and realizes that she now owes you for all the times she's called. Life doesn't work that way.

EL, THAT was awesome! Well done sir!

Your mentality is the entire problem. The way you word things like "she doesn't think I deserve anything in return" and so on kinda shows desperation and that you're going about things in the totally wrong way. You don't befriend people to try and fuck them. You befriend people to be friends with them. If you're looking for pussy then stop trying to get in through the friendship door. In a girls mind you can either be a friend or a potential fuck, rarely can you be both unless it's just a very sexual girl who doesn't like commitment in which case they often go for the "friends with benefits" types they can trust. Those girls are pretty rare though and generally come with a whole host of baggage.

If you want pussy then approach girls from the beginning with compliments and flirt heavily. This makes you intentions clear. If you approach her as a friend she's going to accept you as a friend and that's exacctly what you'll stay.

It's not her fault your expectations are all screwed up. You're trying to make her seem like the bad guy for not paying you back for your friendship with sex. Since when does friendship warrant sexual favors? I've had a lot of friends help me out with things and none of them have ever expected me to give them a blowjob in return. Why is it different because she's a girl?

Sounds to me like you became her friend for the wrong reasons, supported her for the wrong reasons, pursued her in the wrong way, and are now frustrated that life isn't a porn movie where tutoring or helping a girl leads to orgies with her and all her friends.

You got in the friend zone by answering her calls at 3am imo. She obviously sees you as an emotional dumping ground without any of the hassles of sex.

How to get out of that, be up front. "hey, I like you, I think you like me, let's do something"

Either way. You'll get an answer. Be it positive, sweet. Negative, oh well at least no more 3am calls!


Btw, props to Lindross for saying it how he sees it!!

Quote:

Originally posted by J-Swiss

Your mentality is the entire problem. The way you word things like "she doesn't think I deserve anything in return" and so on kinda shows desperation and that you're going about things in the totally wrong way. You don't befriend people to try and fuck them. You befriend people to be friends with them. If you're looking for pussy then stop trying to get in through the friendship door. In a girls mind you can either be a friend or a potential fuck, rarely can you be both unless it's just a very sexual girl who doesn't like commitment in which case they often go for the "friends with benefits" types they can trust. Those girls are pretty rare though and generally come with a whole host of baggage.

If you want pussy then approach girls from the beginning with compliments and flirt heavily. This makes you intentions clear. If you approach her as a friend she's going to accept you as a friend and that's exacctly what you'll stay.

It's not her fault your expectations are all screwed up. You're trying to make her seem like the bad guy for not paying you back for your friendship with sex. Since when does friendship warrant sexual favors? I've had a lot of friends help me out with things and none of them have ever expected me to give them a blowjob in return. Why is it different because she's a girl?

Sounds to me like you became her friend for the wrong reasons, supported her for the wrong reasons, pursued her in the wrong way, and are now frustrated that life isn't a porn movie where tutoring or helping a girl leads to orgies with her and all her friends.

Well said Sir...well said.

The problem you are having is that you are a jackass.

Here, this guy explains it better than I can, you hideous manchild.

Nice article that! Describes this situation to a t