Locksmithing

We've got someone on here that used to be a locksmith. Jeff, I think it was you.

Anyway, yesterday I got a wild hair up my ass and decided to run down to the Army Surplus store. I bought a $12 set of beginner's lock picks and read what really amounted to 3 pages worth of instructions despite it coming in a 25 page book that talked about all kinds of shit, including the author's dog.

The book was pretty useless, but it did say I should start with a very easy lock type and that I should remove all but 2 pins to start. Well, I tried that and I destroyed several of the pin springs in the process and then said fuck it.

So I took the only functional lock I had that I didn't give a shit if it got destroyed. Turns out it's a pretty damn good lock. It's a Schlage P509 double cylinder deadbolt with a 5 pin tumbler. This bitch (when I Googled it) is apparently a pretty pick-proof lock and sells for around $140 before tax or shipping.

That's a pretty substantial challenge for a newbie, but I popped it the first time in about 15 minutes with my basic toolkit - which made me really happy because a total moron with a $12 set of picks just rendered a $140 lock obsolete.

I then fucked around with it for about 2 hours without getting it open again. Then at dinner I just kind of picked it up and ten seconds later I popped it.

The problem is I don't know how the fuck I did it.

So, if Jeff is not stoned out of his mind, or if there are any other locksmiths or "locksporters" around, I'd like to talk to you a bit and get some more specific help.

Is the lock I'm trying to start out on too hard?
I think I'm applying either too much tension to the Torsion wrench or not enough. I'm not sure which though.
The first time I popped the lock, I did it with the hook feeler.
The second time I popped the lock, I did it with a snake.
Should I be raking the pins or is this a bad habit to get into?
Should I be more precise than raking, so that I can find out exactly where the pins are?

I have other questions too, but first lets see if Jeff or anyone else is around.

I think I'm over-setting the first pin, which appears to be intentionally designed to be over-set by a would be picker.

Quote:

Originally posted by utedriver

Get a blowtorch and melt the cunt

Uh... If I wanted into a door, I'd just kick it down. Lockpicking is tedious, requires amazing skill, you have to essentially use a 3 inch flexible pole to feel around inside of a lock to figure out what it looks like internally, then manipulate it like a very fine engine.

I'm not trying to gain entry into anything. I'm trying to engage my mind (and quit smoking - and this gives me something to do with my hands).

This is for fun, not for entry. I ain't stupid. If I wanted into a door I'd just bust the damned door. It's a Hell of a lot faster.

Holy Shit.

You locksmiths sure are afraid of outsiders. You'd think you were guarding the Holy fucking Grail or some shit.

I've been told all kinds of stuff. I've been told that even owning lock picks is illegal. That's a total lie.

I was told they're illegal to carry if you're not a locksmith. That's a lie.

I was told that even a locksmith can be arrested for just carrying them. That's a total lie.

I've been told "I won't talk to you" by more people than I can count just calling around to different shops today too.


Listen, asshats. They're not illegal. If someone's going to burglarize a house, using a lock pick is asinine. Just hit it with a fucking sledge hammer, get in, get the shit and get out.

Likewise, I'm obviously not trying to become one of you.

A) I have a better job already.
B) You guys use machines to do the picking anyway. Since I'm looking for manual lock picks, that sort of indicates that I'm not trying to steal your customers.

Are you guys just trying to feel special or what? Holy shit.


I say again, because it just can't be said profoundly enough, "Holy shit."

They act like I want to fuck their daughter. Hell, that seems like it might be an easier task based on some of the clowns I've spoken to today, provided I bring 50 bucks to the door first.

Get a set of bump keys and a bump hammer. Way easier, faster, and works on more locks... so I am told Google Bump Keys and you will get tons of information. It will scare the crap out of you how easy it is. You will end up replacing the locks in your home with Bump proof locks.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarquin

I've been told that even owning lock picks is illegal. That's a total lie.

No, it's true.

Quote:

Originally posted by http://www.superpages.com/supertips/lock-pick.html

Since the possibility of criminal activity does exist, many states have strict laws about who may purchase or carry a lock pick, and the laws vary from state to state. In some states, just owning a lock pick is okay as long as you have proof of intent. But illegally having a lock pick (meaning coupling possession with felonious or malicious intent) is punishable as a felony. In some locales, those individuals not identified in the statute as legally approved to possess this type of device have to obtain a locksmith license before purchasing a lock pick. The states which have the most stringent laws on this matter include California, Illinois, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Utah, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine, Washington DC and Canada.

In fact, many states make it legal for only locksmiths, repossessors and law enforcement officials to be in possession of a lock pick.

Putting a quote up that agrees with your argument is useless unless the source of the quote is included as well........

I handle foreclosures for a few banks in southern California. The mechanical and electric lock-pick "guns" we use everyday with the sheriffs looking over our shoulders while we enter homes for evictions are illegal for non-locksmiths to carry. I'm not a locksmith and the cops could care less. As mentioned above... if I wanted in I wouldn't be taking my time to pick a lock without damaging a door I would be responsible for repairing. I would just put a brick through a window or boot on the door. Locks only keep out the good people and make our girlfriends feel safe.

I haven't read up on the entire law but I have been told in no uncertain terms that it is illegal for unlicensed people to perform locksmith duties for commercial gain and have read that there is a $10,000 fine for getting caught. In other words you can buy a re-pinning kit at Home Depot to do your own locks but if you try to make $ off it you better have a license.

http://www.bsis.ca.gov/about_us/laws/locksmith_law.shtml

On a different note... locks are rather cool in their design. Someone way smarter than me came up with them in the first place. Simple yet effective. For a long time now they have remained relatively unchanged.
Back to the naked girls!

Quote:

Originally posted by elminster20

Putting a quote up that agrees with your argument is useless unless the source of the quote is included as well........

Fixed.

Also, I work with a former locksmith and he told me that he's not supposed to have his picks anymore since he got out of the business.

http://whatboyswant.com/userprofile/18503/ is the locksmith. He hasn't been on in a while.

I think that schlage is bump proof. Class 1 lock--commercial. Try tungsten carbide drill bit.

Having a set of picks without a license is definitely illegal in Illinois, but then again there isn't much that isn't illegal here.

I can't help you with your problem though I don't shit about locks other than a pair of bolt cutters or a big foot can render them useless pretty quickly. Locks are generally only good for keeping honest people honest.

Quote:

Originally posted by screwy

...

No, it's true.

...

It's sort'a true. Maybe. But you really have to stretch. Your source also contradicts itself, and is contrary to what the police told me (yes, I checked) as well as a criminal attorney - because yeah, I checked on that too.

Even your source states:

"But illegally having a lock pick (meaning coupling possession with felonious or malicious intent) is punishable as a felony."

Naturally that's punishable. In some states, sales, but not possession, of lock picks is regulated. That also falls on the store, not the purchaser. In any case, I don't live in one of those states.


Look at it this way. Owning a gun isn't illegal. Carrying a gun isn't illegal if carried properly (unloaded and away from the ammo). If you're carrying it with the intent to rob a store though, NOW it's illegal.

I have no intent to do any harm.

Quote:

Originally posted by rugbysam

In other words you can buy a re-pinning kit at Home Depot to do your own locks but if you try to make $ off it you better have a license.

This is my understanding as well. If you're in a state that requires licensing and registration and it controls the locksmiths closely that's true. In some states it's legal to practice as a Private Investigator without a license and in some it's not. Same thing here.

In any case, I ain't makin' any money off this.

Bump guns: That sort of defeats the purpose of the hobby. As I said, I'm not trying to break into anything. I'm doing it for the fun. A bump gun takes all the fun out. Rikko's right about the Schlage locks too. They're "reportedly" bump-proof, but so are a lot of locks that can be bumped.

Anyway, I just want to use picks, and I'm not really grasping why these people are so anal other than trying to preserve their own income. But I swear, I don't want to be a locksmith. I'm not trying to steal their customers. I just want a little help with a hobby. Hell, I'd even make purchases from them for things like practice locks, lock springs (I just broke two of them about an hour ago while taking some pins out. I dropped them and stepped on them, now they're flat), and so on.

Silly locksmiths. No, really, this isn't rocket science. And no, really, you're not a spy. Lighten up.

I can get into most common locks now in under 60 seconds.

Congratulations!
It takes a lot of practice, and I'm impressed.
I only dabble so I had no words of wisdom while you got to this point.

(If you ever need to know about hot-wiring.....)