http://www.buell.com/en_us/
natsumefanman813 15 years ago
I was never too familiar with Buell but that's still too bad...
Muad-dib 15 years ago
as a harley driver I am - and as a self-emloyed ...those are not easy times, I am with you eric!!
but for your lifework i have to bow!
but for your lifework i have to bow!
Tarquin 15 years ago
I'm curious how American motorcycle companies plan to stay competitive without something resembling a crotch rocket line. Street bikes are great, but they're more expensive, there's a "lifestyle" perception about them (not a bad perception, just a perception that not everyone fits with), they're not as fast.
What keeps American street bikes like Harleys on the road is that persona and perception. Without something to compete in the lighter, faster, more efficient crotch rocket market place, I'm wondering how Harley will sustain its customer base. It will surely always have a customer base in America and that perception of those bikes will draw many towards it.
That said, it's not by any stretch the perception that leads to domination of the market for bikes.
In fact, my little brother just picked up a 1450 CC 2003 (100 year anniversary) Softail. I tried it. Frankly, the bike is far too heavy and large for me. I knew that before hand though. I knew that the next bike I was going to get was going to have to be a light crotch rocket type, simply because I was raised on dirt bikes and I'm a fairly small dude in terms of body weight.
:shrug:
I'm just saying. If Harley loses that aspect of the market, the rest is going to become more and more limited over time as well. The closing of Buell (if not replaced with something else) is definitely going to have some long-term implication for Harley, none of which are positive.
What keeps American street bikes like Harleys on the road is that persona and perception. Without something to compete in the lighter, faster, more efficient crotch rocket market place, I'm wondering how Harley will sustain its customer base. It will surely always have a customer base in America and that perception of those bikes will draw many towards it.
That said, it's not by any stretch the perception that leads to domination of the market for bikes.
In fact, my little brother just picked up a 1450 CC 2003 (100 year anniversary) Softail. I tried it. Frankly, the bike is far too heavy and large for me. I knew that before hand though. I knew that the next bike I was going to get was going to have to be a light crotch rocket type, simply because I was raised on dirt bikes and I'm a fairly small dude in terms of body weight.
:shrug:
I'm just saying. If Harley loses that aspect of the market, the rest is going to become more and more limited over time as well. The closing of Buell (if not replaced with something else) is definitely going to have some long-term implication for Harley, none of which are positive.
J-Swiss 15 years ago
I don't even give a shit about Buell's but just watchin that video was really sad. The dude just seems so dedicated and heart broken.
I don't think Harley has to worry too much, Tarquin, it's all a matter of preference. Just like there's still gonna be a market for trucks and people who want SUV's even though the majority is moving towards smaller more efficient cars. The people who ride Harleys swear by them and my personal choice in a bike has always been a bigger heavier cruiser bike over a little speed bike. Personally I laugh at dudes who ride crotch rockets.
The two markets don't share customers anyway. The same people who buy crotch rockets wouldn't even consider a Harley and Harley riders would rather die then be seen on a crotch rocket. Same as a guy who drives an old school big block chevy doesn't want anything to do with a V6 Honda no matter how fast the damn thing can go.
A crotch rocket to me is nothing more then a toy. They're uncomfortable, they're painted all silly and colorful ninety percent of the time. To me there's just nothing to be taken seriously about them or the people who ride them. It's just like a jet ski for the road.
I don't think Harley has to worry too much, Tarquin, it's all a matter of preference. Just like there's still gonna be a market for trucks and people who want SUV's even though the majority is moving towards smaller more efficient cars. The people who ride Harleys swear by them and my personal choice in a bike has always been a bigger heavier cruiser bike over a little speed bike. Personally I laugh at dudes who ride crotch rockets.
The two markets don't share customers anyway. The same people who buy crotch rockets wouldn't even consider a Harley and Harley riders would rather die then be seen on a crotch rocket. Same as a guy who drives an old school big block chevy doesn't want anything to do with a V6 Honda no matter how fast the damn thing can go.
A crotch rocket to me is nothing more then a toy. They're uncomfortable, they're painted all silly and colorful ninety percent of the time. To me there's just nothing to be taken seriously about them or the people who ride them. It's just like a jet ski for the road.
Tarquin 15 years ago
In essence I agree with your post.
This isn't entirely true, however.
Consider this:
I'm 5'11". I weigh currently about 135 pounds. I was raised on dirt bikes which are steered by leaning. I'm thin and always have been. I love street bikes, and would love to own a Harley.
Bear these stats in mind though, from my brother's new bike (A Harley softail, which I love and would want to own):
1450 CCs, much wider than a crotch rocket, lower than a crotch rocket, longer than a crotch rocket, have to turn the handle-bars to turn (unlike a crotch rocket which is mostly steered by leaning). It weighs 700+ pounds.
Or...
649 CC Ninja, smaller wheel base, sits higher (easier to balance), shorter wheel base, turns by leaning, weighs... Wait for it... Less than 400 pounds.
For someone of my physical build and habit of driving (being raised on dirt bikes), in order to get a Harley I'd be pretty screwed. They're too fucking big for someone of my size and nature. Which one's more of a factor (my weight or my habits of turning) is probably up for debate, but my size does matter as well since a bike is controlled through the body weight of the driver, not the physical strength of the driver.
Because of the sheer weight of a Harley, I'd be downright dangerous on one. Because of the weight of a crotch rocket, I'd pretty much be in full control.
I'm almost physiologically mandated to be on a crotch rocket, or not ride at all.
The simple fact of the matter is that there is no such thing as a 400 pound Harley Davidson. That's not a matter of consumer taste, that's a reality of physical genetics.
Quote:
Originally posted by J-Swiss
The two markets don't share customers anyway. The same people who buy crotch rockets wouldn't even consider a Harley and Harley riders would rather die then be seen on a crotch rocket.
This isn't entirely true, however.
Consider this:
I'm 5'11". I weigh currently about 135 pounds. I was raised on dirt bikes which are steered by leaning. I'm thin and always have been. I love street bikes, and would love to own a Harley.
Bear these stats in mind though, from my brother's new bike (A Harley softail, which I love and would want to own):
1450 CCs, much wider than a crotch rocket, lower than a crotch rocket, longer than a crotch rocket, have to turn the handle-bars to turn (unlike a crotch rocket which is mostly steered by leaning). It weighs 700+ pounds.
Or...
649 CC Ninja, smaller wheel base, sits higher (easier to balance), shorter wheel base, turns by leaning, weighs... Wait for it... Less than 400 pounds.
For someone of my physical build and habit of driving (being raised on dirt bikes), in order to get a Harley I'd be pretty screwed. They're too fucking big for someone of my size and nature. Which one's more of a factor (my weight or my habits of turning) is probably up for debate, but my size does matter as well since a bike is controlled through the body weight of the driver, not the physical strength of the driver.
Because of the sheer weight of a Harley, I'd be downright dangerous on one. Because of the weight of a crotch rocket, I'd pretty much be in full control.
I'm almost physiologically mandated to be on a crotch rocket, or not ride at all.
The simple fact of the matter is that there is no such thing as a 400 pound Harley Davidson. That's not a matter of consumer taste, that's a reality of physical genetics.
steelnail 15 years ago
Where's the Stimulus Package for Buell?
Otherwise this is the nature of the beast for the free market and its flucuations of the business cycle. With any luck when the market turns around Buell might be reborn much like Harley was lifted from the ashes years ago.
Otherwise this is the nature of the beast for the free market and its flucuations of the business cycle. With any luck when the market turns around Buell might be reborn much like Harley was lifted from the ashes years ago.
Mr._Self_Destruct 15 years ago
I don't know why this is sad for bikers, I never see anyone riding a buell.
Tarquin 15 years ago
Quote:
Originally posted by bachiotomy
I don't know why this is sad for bikers, I never see anyone riding a buell.
I see them here and there, but not often. The reality is that while they're very innovative machines, they're not very aesthetically pleasing the way some of their competition was. I think that mattered a lot.
