School dress codes are questioned, and challenged on new grounds.

This is a logical follow on to the thread in which polled Brazilians said that provocative attire would incite rape.

Read it and see if you agree with that premise, with this sensible view of where the real responsibility lies and an American perspective.

to wit:

https://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/lindsey-stocker-dress-code-shorts-beaconsfield-high-school-quebec-canada-153056456.html

I don't see what the big deal is. My high school had a dress code. The school didn't say she couldn't wear shorts, just that she couldn't wear short-shorts. What's next? Are women office workers going to strike because they can't wear miniskirts to work? Here's why it has nothing to do with rape culture or sexism: If a boy was wearing short-shorts, he would have gotten the same punishment.

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Originally posted by Davey45

Here's why it has nothing to do with rape culture or sexism: If a boy was wearing short-shorts, he would have gotten the same punishment.

Do you really believe that? I have doubts that would happen. While the dress code rules don't mention gender, they are more directed at women.
"the school's website states that students are prohibited from wearing short shorts or skirts, halter tops, visible underwear, low-riding pants, clothing that’s torn, and anything that shows “excessive” cleavage or midriff, among other banned items."
When I went to high school we had the same rules....a generic statement that you couldn't show your midriff, yet guys often went shirtless on campus on hot days during lunch...and at track meets and such. So that rule apparently didn't apply to them. I don't know if we specifically had a low riding pants rule, but guys used to wear their jean low so you could see the waistband of their boxers...if a girl did that with a thong, it wouldn't be tolerated. I'm just saying there is a huge double standard to things like this, and the girl is right...why are we focusing on the rules, when we should be focusing on education that would eliminate the need for rules.

Quote:

Originally posted by Davey45

I don't see what the big deal is. My high school had a dress code. The school didn't say she couldn't wear shorts, just that she couldn't wear short-shorts. What's next? Are women office workers going to strike because they can't wear miniskirts to work? Here's why it has nothing to do with rape culture or sexism: If a boy was wearing short-shorts, he would have gotten the same punishment.

Lindsey (the student) says that a part of why she responded the way she did is because the dress code on the boys is not equally enforced.

I don't mind a school having a dress code but for it to be valid it has to be clear (so not something like "students must wear appropriate clothes" which is highly subjective) and enforced for everyone.
Apparently it's not the case here so I think her complaint is valid at least on that second point.

As long as it's enforced equally for everyone, I don't have an issue with a school dress code. Let's be honest, teenage girls are probably more likely to show too much skin than teenage boys but it really isn't something that's acceptable for either gender at that age.

There's something to be said for letting students express their own individuality. Besides, I went to a school that had a dress code. Here's what we did:

Rubber band on the arm.
Band Aid on the hand.
Tied our knots a certain way.
Rolled our socks.
Creased our collars differently.
Carried an item sticking out of our pocket.
Put a streak in our hair.
Had the same symbol on our notebook.
The same kind of cologne.

And on and on.

There's no uniform in the world that makes people look uniform, and it does take away the individual expression of the person - especially a young person that can't articulate or find and utilize as many methods of personal expression.

In my mind, requiring a school uniform or something is fine, "Shirt, shoes, pants, socks." But if it goes much further than that, the school's practically begging for trouble - and not just the First Amendment kind.

Kids want to express themselves.

Kids will express themselves.

Do we want that expression to be overt and cooperative, or covert and hostile?

Rules are there just follow them it's school, what's she going to be like when she has to get a job......

I'm all for equality but why do women get cheaper car insurance than men just based on there sex, how come they get women only gym and swimming classes but men don't, that's not equal....

This little girl in the story just wants her 15 min of fame and to be a pain in the ass, I bet her parents are proud of her dressing like that and causing trouble.....

When I went to school we all had to wear uniforms and it stopped this sort of thing.....

maybe the rules should be more precise and clear on what is expected of each student in regards to dress codes, but sometimes some common sense goes a long way. Which I dont think she had, given how she reacted afterwards.

Quote:

I'm all for equality but why do women get cheaper car insurance than men just based on there sex, how come they get women only gym and swimming classes but men don't, that's not equal....

Because statistically, women costs way less in car damages. It doesn't mean they have less accident but men are involved in way more serious accidents. It's the same reason young drivers will pay more than older ones.
Because in gym/pools, the majority of harassment problems will come from a man towards a woman and not the opposite. So it's not "interesting" to have a man only facility because they don't have to be "protected" from women in most cases.

For both, it's due to men inability to behave (drive safely, not harass others) not some kind of women favouritism.

Also, women pay way more for health insurance than men for obvious reasons too.

There's a difference between a school having a dress code and making kids wear uniforms. My high school had a dress code. Students could not wear sexually provocative clothing or obscene or offensive attire. You can express yourself and your individuality without showing excessive cleavage or butt cheeks. I had many a concert T-shirt from punk rock shows that I wasn't allowed to wear due to profanity. There was a constant struggle with a lot of girls at my school and whether or not their shorts were considered too short. As a 16 year old boy, I had no issues with the girls wearing revealing clothing to school but as an adult, I realize that a school full of kids is no place for you to be showing off your body. If you want to dress provocatively, at least wait until you're an adult.

Quote:

My high school had a dress code. Students could not wear sexually provocative clothing or obscene or offensive attire.

Quote:

There was a constant struggle with a lot of girls at my school and whether or not their shorts were considered too short.

That's why you don't want to use a dress code with subjective words such as "sexually provocative" or "offensive". Everyone can have a different interpretation of those.

Quote:

Originally posted by sumo999

I'm all for equality but why do women get cheaper car insurance than men just based on there sex

Because generally we don't drive like assholes when we're young. And Its not just women who are singled out in insurance. If you're over 25 your rates are lower, if you're married your rates are lower. It has nothing to do with gender, other than on average women are less of a risk because they, again on average do less risky things behind he wheel.

Quote:

Originally posted by sumo999

how come they get women only gym and swimming classes but men don't, that's not equal....

There have been in the past, and still are many clubs, and classes that are men only. Just because you don't have a men's only gym doesn't mean they don't exist. Women's gyms exist for one reason, and thats to get away from prying eyes of men. I'm sure if the gym owners thought that men wanted to get away from the women members, then you'd start seeing men only gyms pop up all over.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sumo999

I bet her parents are proud of her dressing like that and causing trouble.....

Dressing like what??? Just say it...you mean dressing like a slut right? You're the problem. Rather than see a young girl in a pair of shorts, you choose to objectify her...you'v done EXACTLY what her note says men do.

Quote:

Originally posted by omuh

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That's why you don't want to use a dress code with subjective words such as "sexually provocative" or "offensive". Everyone can have a different interpretation of those.

Those limits are determined by the administrative staff. It's not hard to comprehend. The fingertip rule was usually used to determine if shorts were too short. It's common sense to realize that a shirt that says "Fuck off" or "I hate Asians" is offensive. Normally, the first violation of a dress code was a minor punishment. The student had to change into another shirt or sit in internal suspension until the end of the day. You would actually get punished via detention or other means if you were a habitual dress code breaker. It's not that tough to understand. If a teacher or administrator says "don't wear that to school again" you don't. If you do, you get punished. We are talking about children here.

Sir,
As your signature line declares, yes.....you don't look or sound like someone who gives a fuck. So, why are you here ? You've added nothing to the total experience, your examples of equal treatment in school are laughable ( please don't talk about uniforms solving any problems in the schools. Been there and done that.), as are your comments on car insurance and women. What a sad sack of ignorance you are. And yes, "let the rich get richer".....(WTF ?).......lol

I do hope that in life if you follow your avatar's inspirational motto that we don't find you cheating your way toward prosperity.

Quote:

Originally posted by sumo999

Rules are there just follow them it's school, what's she going to be like when she has to get a job......

I'm all for equality but why do women get cheaper car insurance than men just based on there sex, how come they get women only gym and swimming classes but men don't, that's not equal....

This little girl in the story just wants her 15 min of fame and to be a pain in the ass, I bet her parents are proud of her dressing like that and causing trouble.....

When I went to school we all had to wear uniforms and it stopped this sort of thing.....

No wonder the site is dying a slow death, Lots of over opinionated little girls with chips on their shoulders....

Yeah...because women shouldn't have opinions right? We should be seen and not heard. Only men like you should have opinions....right?

And you got it wrong...not opinionated little girls its small angry girls. Get it right you misogynistic ass.

Personally, I think that being "provocative" is just the latest excuse to not get rid of dress codes. A few years ago, I heard a news story on schools trying to justify dress codes by saying that if a kid wasn't wearing the latest fashions, he'd be inviting bullying, therefore, everyone dress the same. It's just one excuse after another when the REAL reason for school dress codes is so that A) the PTA can feel like they must be doing a good job because everyone looks "nice," and B) schools that require uniforms can continue to make profits from selling overpriced uniforms.

Quote:

Originally posted by shawn314

if a kid wasn't wearing the latest fashions, he'd be inviting bullying, therefore, everyone dress the same.

This is usually a reason schools use for instituting uniforms, not a dress code. A dress code is where you're allowed to chose your clothes as long as they fit within certain guidelines. Uniforms are...uniforms.